how long is too long for a game of golf?

[chrisd]

I have to say I find some of your posts and "reasoning's" for them quite rude, once you pay your fee's, of which any decent secretary will have built his business model on that's it, you are not obliged to do or spend or participate in any other way, that's the facts of the matter, your opinion of what a "proper member" is and what a "true member" is as far as figures on the P&L are 2 different things. I see a lot of waste lost within the bar/restaurant areas, excessive staff for those areas, over priced drinks & foods so not attracting "members" to buy and stay, chefs not doing anything for hours, and the list could go on, the main core business is the golf course, I fully understand that profits from other areas of the club can help to support that, but, the members fee's and projected visitor green fee's should reflect that alone and anything else is a Brucie bonus. If that meant cutting back on bar times, food availability and staff, then so be it. I've seen the same old crowd attending some functions and I applaud them, obviously they have the club as their main circle of friends, but, that should not be forced upon or expected of the other members who simply have chosen the club because of the golf course, they have no other obligation to contribute other than their annual fee's.

And to mention not spending in the Pro shop does nothing for the club, 99% of them are on a retainer so their revenue is their own, so your not investing in the club by spending in the Pro shop either!

Maybe Paddy should leave that club by your reckoning as he's not a "proper member" and then you can explain to his secretary how to claw back that revenue?

To add to the theme of Fish's post

We, a few golfers at my club, had a chat recently the theme of which was

As biggest percentage of the club overheads away from course maintenance were wages, largely of bar and catering staff, if clubs didn't have lavish bars open all hours and catering facilities to do a full Sunday roast for 2 golfers at 4.55 pm on a Tuesday then the need to bring in extra revenue so as to afford the facilities these costs would be negated. So, if clubs put their money mostly into the course and reined back on the facilities, do away with dance facilities or restaurant for 100 people, maybe just have the golf equivalent of a school common room where a tea, coffee or can of beer could be had, the question is, would the golf be affected and would the need to raise so much money over and above the subscription be necessary?

 

[Doon frae Troon]

Yes and all about your 90 strokes

Each one individually explained, goodness is that the time.:lol:

 

[Fish]

To add to the theme of Fish's post

We, a few golfers at my club, had a chat recently the theme of which was

As biggest percentage of the club overheads away from course maintenance were wages, largely of bar and catering staff, if clubs didn't have lavish bars open all hours and catering facilities to do a full Sunday roast for 2 golfers at 4.55 pm on a Tuesday then the need to bring in extra revenue so as to afford the facilities these costs would be negated. So, if clubs put their money mostly into the course and reined back on the facilities, do away with dance facilities or restaurant for 100 people, maybe just have the golf equivalent of a school common room where a tea, coffee or can of beer could be had, the question is, would the golf be affected and would the need to raise so much money over and above the subscription be necessary?

It doesn't have to be as severe as that but I get your drift Chris because, my club has an "honesty bar", we have no staff costs, no steward living for free in-house, no chef sitting around all day in case someone chooses to have something, we serve guests and ourselves, we have a lady come in at certain times when comps are on and hot meals are available then, outside of those times I can go into the kitchen and put a lasagne in the microwave, do some chips, make myself a sandwich or anything else I fancy from the many fridges/freezers and leave the money in a dish on her table. It works just great :thup:

 

[Hacker Khan]

To add to the theme of Fish's post

We, a few golfers at my club, had a chat recently the theme of which was

As biggest percentage of the club overheads away from course maintenance were wages, largely of bar and catering staff, if clubs didn't have lavish bars open all hours and catering facilities to do a full Sunday roast for 2 golfers at 4.55 pm on a Tuesday then the need to bring in extra revenue so as to afford the facilities these costs would be negated. So, if clubs put their money mostly into the course and reined back on the facilities, do away with dance facilities or restaurant for 100 people, maybe just have the golf equivalent of a school common room where a tea, coffee or can of beer could be had, the question is, would the golf be affected and would the need to raise so much money over and above the subscription be necessary?

I don't think there is a problem with having additional facilities as they can be attractive to a lot of people. Indeed there can be big profit margins in food/drink. But they have to be run properly and be attractive to make people want to spend their time/money there.

I agree having a 100 seat restaurant to cater for 2 golfers every now and then is pointless and you'd be much better spending the money on better greens. But having a 100 seater restaurant that is fairly vibrant should bring in much needed revenue and make the whole place more 'alive' if that makes sense.

 

[bluewolf]

if someone wants to be a carpark member then that's up to them - not ideal IMO as all clubs count on additional income from members above and beyond the subs - and if we all took the carpark golf approach club would struggle and probably go under unless subs were increased for all. And so the truth of it is that carpark members have their golf subsidised by members who use the clubhouse.

Now friend, I believe we've had this discussion before .. But I will make the point one last time..

If there was a requirement to spend a set amount (lets say £100) in the Clubhouse each year, then I would have to reconsider my membership of said club. I may be forced to leave in fact...

Therefore, considering the fact that my club membership is not full, my yearly subscription could be considered to be subsidizing the subscriptions of all those members who prefer to spend time in the Clubhouse.. Now I'm not asking for anyones thanks for subsidizing their membership. I would however like not to be patronised and insulted by being referred to as effectively a second class member of the Club....

Oh, and I've probably spent more this year than in any of the previous 3 years.. Even though I didn't go anywhere near the clubhouse between May and October..

 

[chrisd]

I don't think there is a problem with having additional facilities as they can be attractive to a lot of people. Indeed there can be big profit margins in food/drink. But they have to be run properly and be attractive to make people want to spend their time/money there.

I agree having a 100 seat restaurant to cater for 2 golfers every now and then is pointless and you'd be much better spending the money on better greens. But having a 100 seater restaurant that is fairly vibrant should bring in much needed revenue and make the whole place more 'alive' if that makes sense.

I agree, but, I think a lot of clubs don't do much more than break even with their bar/catering and if you take into account the extra capital costs in the first build the question was whether a golf club wax better off just providing the basic facilities and putting their money mostly into the course.

I think for a lot of clubs Fish's is possibly a good model!

 

[Smiffy]

I'm a high handiacpper, can get round my local course in 2 hours 20 on my own, don't go for a drink after if I'm on my own, do if I play a round with mates and sometimes untuck my shirt. What does that make me?

A prize knob

 

[delc]

As a 3-ball we got round our 18 hole, 6400 yard course in 3 hours 50 minutes today, with a few searches for balls in the rough (my partners, not me) and a 5 minute break at the clubhouse after 9 holes. We were also held up a few times by green keepers mowing the fairways on gang mowers. We didn't hurry and did not hold up the following group. Our handicaps were 12 (me), 22 and 25. Shows that it doesn't have to take 5 hours to get round! We tidied up bunkers, replaced divots and repaired pitch marks on the greens.

What is important to me is not so much the absolute time it takes to get around a course, it's not having to wait on every tee and after every shot before playing the next one. I get cold, tired and stiff if I have to, especially in the Winter!

 

[Slab]

As a 3-ball we got round our 18 hole, 6400 yard course in 3 hours 50 minutes today, with a few searches for balls in the rough (my partners, not me) and a 5 minute break at the clubhouse after 9 holes. We were also held up a few times by green keepers mowing the fairways on gang mowers. We didn't hurry and did not hold up the following group. Our handicaps were 12 (me), 22 and 25. Shows that it doesn't have to take 5 hours to get round! We tidied up bunkers, replaced divots and repaired pitch marks on the greens.

What is important to me is not so much the absolute time it takes to get around a course, it's not having to wait on every tee and after every shot before playing the next one. I get cold, tired and stiff if I have to, especially in the Winter!

I think everyone would agree that it doesn't have to take 5 hours, however sometimes it does. Hope you enjoyed your game although the pace for a 3-ball on a Monday would typically not compare to one of the longer rounds

Any idea how your time/pace yesterday would compare had it been a Saturday with 80-100 players joining you?

 

[Fish]

I think everyone would agree that it doesn't have to take 5 hours, however sometimes it does. Hope you enjoyed your game although the pace for a 3-ball on a Monday would typically not compare to one of the longer rounds

Any idea how your time/pace yesterday would compare had it been a Saturday with 80-100 players joining you?

At my previous club the comps would be fully booked between 7am and 2pm with 8 minute intervals and in 4-balls, do the maths, 200 members playing within that period! OK I know they wouldn't be all out their at the same time but, its still fully loaded, if you said that it was reaching 4.5hrs to complete then there would be at least 136 golfers on the course, that's 2 groups p/hole, that doesn't sound much if 1 group is holing out whilst the other is teeing off but then take 5 x par 3's out of those figures where 2 groups can't figure, the looking for a ball, 3 off the tee etc and you have mass congestion!

Do some clubs not help the situation like above with large memberships wanting to play comps and cramming them in or should they create more comps over the weekend or following week to help spread the interest and offer more enjoyable playing conditions?

 

[Slab]

At my previous club the comps would be fully booked between 7am and 2pm with 8 minute intervals and in 4-balls, do the maths, 200 members playing within that period! OK I know they wouldn't be all out their at the same time but, its still fully loaded, if you said that it was reaching 4.5hrs to complete then there would be at least 136 golfers on the course, that's 2 groups p/hole, that doesn't sound much if 1 group is holing out whilst the other is teeing off but then take 5 x par 3's out of those figures where 2 groups can't figure, the looking for a ball, 3 off the tee etc and you have mass congestion!

Do some clubs not help the situation like above with large memberships wanting to play comps and cramming them in or should they create more comps over the weekend or following week to help spread the interest and offer more enjoyable playing conditions?

My game this Saturday is a restricted field of 80 with a shotgun start for 20 x 4-balls (so no spacing/gaping holes & a double up on 2 holes) On paper it should flow but even a few minutes delay by a single group for any reason and the backlog will start

The course layout means nearly every player will lose at least one ball and plenty will lose multiple balls (some to hazards which don't really delay and many others to not being able to find them)

I expect around a 4:30 duration but wont be checking

 

[delc]

I think everyone would agree that it doesn't have to take 5 hours, however sometimes it does. Hope you enjoyed your game although the pace for a 3-ball on a Monday would typically not compare to one of the longer rounds

Any idea how your time/pace yesterday would compare had it been a Saturday with 80-100 players joining you?

The round in question was played on Tuesday morning starting at 9:02 actually!

If you play at our club at peak times on Saturday and Sunday mornings, you can expect the round to take 4.5 hours, maybe 5 hours, especially if there is a comp on.

Playing a round of golf is a bit like driving round the M25 in the rush hour. You can only go as fast as the guys in front!
:mmm:

 

[HomerJSimpson]

We use to have a bar levy on the card each year. Only £50 so hardly bank busting but the club deemed it was off putting to prospective new members and dropped it. I would like it back personally. Amazing just how many members couldn't even spend that amount in a calendar year and the money left on it went into club coffers so a win win really

 

[guest100718]

We use to have a bar levy on the card each year. Only £50 so hardly bank busting but the club deemed it was off putting to prospective new members and dropped it. I would like it back personally. Amazing just how many members couldn't even spend that amount in a calendar year and the money left on it went into club coffers so a win win really

you think?

I wouldnt underestimate the number of people are put off by bar levys.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

you think?

I wouldnt underestimate the number of people are put off by bar levys.

Clearly as the club numbers have grown and we're doing all right for members it's obviously had a positive effect

 

[bluewolf]

Clearly as the club numbers have grown and we're doing all right for members it's obviously had a positive effect

So why would you like it back? Course getting a bit busy Homie?

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

I might question the strength of the correlation between dropping of a bar/food levy and increasing membership and might look for other contributing factors.

 

[6inchcup]

you think?

I wouldnt underestimate the number of people are put off by bar levys.

how much a year do you spend in the club house on drinks and food,not MARATHONS.

 

[guest100718]

how much a year do you spend in the club house on drinks and food,not MARATHONS.

I dont keep a record, but it could be as much as £9.36 !! And I bought a pencil for 10p the other day from the Pro shop.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

So why would you like it back? Course getting a bit busy Homie?

Not at all. I just liked the fact the club seemed to get a lot of easy cash downloading the unspent amounts at the end of the year and anything that helps reduce the need to increase my subs is a big :thup: in my book