How do you measure progress?

[GreggerKBR]

Can you help me understand Game Golf, in a nutshell.
There are two versions, as far as I can tell. What's the difference and which one do you have? (Live Vs Classic).

Looks interesting. I hardly ever buy gadgets but could be interested in this.

You tag the shot and it records all your shots through a round, using GPS.
It then works out all your averages and provides performance feedback using strokes gained against different abilities, scratch, 5, 10 etc.
It will take at least 10 rounds to start giving you meaningful feedback.

You want the device that clips in (classic) as I don't think the "live" version is legal for competition play (although I could be wrong).
However, you don't want to be fiddling with Apps on your phone when playing competitive golf.

I don't think it would be of much use to anyone not playing competitive medal rounds or anyone not breaking 100 yet.
That's just my opinion though.

 

[GreggerKBR]

Not to discourage Game Golf, but myself and most people I know who bought it used it for a few times then it became more hassle than it was worth.

Having to charge it for every round, syncing it with iphone, remembering to tag every shot before you hit. I was spending a lot of time editing rounds on my PC after as I would forget to tag strokes like putts, or find it didn't pick up a shot so was saying my drive was 400 yards etc

Yes, indeed, I found the same, forgetting to tag, making mistakes, but it definitely gets easier the more you use it.
Software upgrade means it detects missed tagging now, which helps.
But after time it becomes more automatic when it's ingrained part of your routine.

I found editing and signing off the round afterwards in my quiet time easy though.
I pretty much only use it for competitive rounds.
I'm sure I put my round behind me better now, it's kind of - review done, move on.
But only use it on my PC after the round. Which is when it's charging back up.

Whilst I accept it's geeky, has faults/challenges and doesn't suit everyone it does definitely provide a far more accurate understanding of your shot tendency and your areas for improvements based on Strokes Gained... which is way beyond GIR, FIR, Putts/Rnd, Putts/GIR, Sand saves etc etc.

Thus far more accurate for measuring progress in competition play...

 

[GreggerKBR]

'depends what stage you are at'

I've been on course playing since June ( but went travelling for 7 weeks so about 6 months really) . Female. Can do about 64 from ladies tees so not really ready to put cards in. Putting mostly twos but also threes which are half complete misses by feet but also those irritating lips out or one inch short putts.
I'm hitting longer as I practice and have lessons, (about 100 yds with a 7 iron 130-135 with my 4 crossover as examples ) but the thing that lets me down is (a) getting in rough or bunkers as I struggle to get out and (b) getting cracking contact in the ball but sending it 40 degrees off my intended line no matter how carefully I set up c) bring heavy handed with chips and sending them flying over the green.

Thinking back to when I began playing I was fortunate to get short game lessons from our lady club champion.
She helped me so much with chipping and putting, I wish I'd practiced that area of the game more and asked her for more help than I did.
If you haven't already done so, or thought about it perhaps ask your coach/pro to do a few short game lessons?
And start to record your progress against the goal of 1-chip and 1-putt.

There's an old saying that golf should be learned from the green backwards to the tee.
I quite often challenge the single-figure youngsters at our club to a chip & putt game!!
They are brilliant and I'm always in awe of their lack of nerves!

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Progress for me is measured in the HC - if your playing well then the scores will reflect that and the HC change will follow. For Amatuers it's the stat that shows our level of ability

If you haven't got a HC then it's the score you put on the card

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Not to discourage Game Golf, but myself and most people I know who bought it used it for a few times then it became more hassle than it was worth.

Having to charge it for every round, syncing it with iphone, remembering to tag every shot before you hit. I was spending a lot of time editing rounds on my PC after as I would forget to tag strokes like putts, or find it didn't pick up a shot so was saying my drive was 400 yards etc

I've logged over 300 rounds on Game Golf and my network of friends using it has grown, I genuinely now see no negatives in it, no different to charging any gadget, the editing is second nature after a round and stats wise I can see were I have improved and areas that need more attention.

I have the live version and only use that for practice in the summer and never had an issue syncing to iphone, log on and it's there.

Agree it's not for everyone, but if you read your post back the majority of the issues you mention are down to yourself (no dig intended) rather than Game Golf.

 

[3565]

I've logged over 300 rounds on Game Golf and my network of friends using it has grown, I genuinely now see no negatives in it, no different to charging any gadget, the editing is second nature after a round and stats wise I can see were I have improved and areas that need more attention.

I have the live version and only use that for practice in the summer and never had an issue syncing to iphone, log on and it's there.

Agree it's not for everyone, but if you read your post back the majority of the issues you mention are down to yourself (no dig intended) rather than Game Golf.

Or it's a lack of a PSR or discipline to incorporate it. I've never had issues in tagging, the only issue I have is gaining the exact location and footage of putts, but I take an extra scorecard with me a write the info down then edit after.

 

[Copernicus]

I don't think it would be of much use to anyone not playing competitive medal rounds or anyone not breaking 100 yet.
That's just my opinion though.

Interested why you say that. Apart from anything g else It sounds like it would be very useful for helping a pre-handicapper learn the distances they hit on an actual course in different conditions, which should aid decision making. And also analysing consistent faults so I can take those to my teaching pro for tailored advice. No?

 

[merv79]

When I first took up the game, I didn't really care about my overall score as there were always the 4 or 5 over par holes that would ruin it. So I focussed on how many pars and bogies I scored.

Then as time moved on I would track the following; FIR, GIR, sand saves, number of putts. Simple stuff to track on a score card.

My next measure may change as I've started reading 'every shot counts' and I reckon that's going to open a can of worms in terms of what I am going to work on!

I think this is an excellent way of progressing from beginner and then working to get the handicap down, broadly identifying areas to focus on for improvement (FIR, GIR, scrambling etc).

I used to rely solely on keeping basic stats such as GIR etc and I feel it helps to a point to identify areas for improvement, but as people have already said, these are not the best measure of ability.

I like the strokes gained methodology, I have read the 'Every Shot Counts' book and I really buy into the fact that it's the best way of identifying ability from various shot types/distances, an easy way to identify areas for improvement, and measure progress.

I don't have Game golf, I manually write down the necessary information while I am playing and input into strokes gained spreadsheet. I have a laser and pace off putts as I am playing, really isn't much hassle at all, and I intend to use it for the season.

 

[GreggerKBR]

Interested why you say that. Apart from anything g else It sounds like it would be very useful for helping a pre-handicapper learn the distances they hit on an actual course in different conditions, which should aid decision making. And also analysing consistent faults so I can take those to my teaching pro for tailored advice. No?

Yes, in part I would agree with you, and I'm definitely not saying don't use it.
It might help people to learn what club to take, I'd be interested to see if it could help a beginner in that way.
But GG won't tell you to club up/down for lie, elevation, wind, cold etc.

So I think until you've played for a while, and know that you can use 3-4 clubs to hit a 145yd approach shot (for EG) and do so with a little confidence I'm not sure a reporting tool will be of much use, to me, it's more of a reporting analysis from which you can draw conclusions.
The idea for me at least is to find out what your tendency is in situations of importance.

A relative beginner with much to learn about the swing could and probably would not connect properly with the majority of their shots.
An inconsistent swing speed, path and strike will give you inconsistent outcomes/results.
So what is the point having a device to prove that?

You'd be better off with a laser range finder, radar device and a bucket of balls on the range - pick targets and try hit those targets at first.
Get some good fundamentals, get to a point where you have some stock shots.
That would help you improve quicker than measuring your swings/strikes/decisions in competition/play.

Again - it's a game for everyone - so if you want to use GG or anything please don't let me stop you!
But I have learned a lot using it.

 

[Dasit]

I don't think game golf works very well for distances on clubs. My course is always windy in different directions, every hole has different slopes, all up or downhill.

A 7 iron can go 130 yards or 200 yards.

I know it shows more a median or mode figure and not average, but not something I can rely on, think regular gap testing is better indicator.

 

[Copernicus]

A relative beginner with much to learn about the swing could and probably would not connect properly with the majority of their shots.
An inconsistent swing speed, path and strike will give you inconsistent outcomes/results..

Oh how very true!! I assume though that it tells you for each round each individual shot? So you can look and see that you say used your seven iron eight times. Three time you hit it three inches, five times between 90 and 15 yards (say). The game golf recorded average would be nonsense but you could use it to look at the five decent shots and get an accurate averagely doing the maths yourself.
Does it work like that?
If you buy it, use it like that for a while until you are striking most balls well can you then reset it to start from scratch so you start again with more accurate averages?

 

[Deleted member 16999]

I don't think game golf works very well for distances on clubs. My course is always windy in different directions, every hole has different slopes, all up or downhill.

A 7 iron can go 130 yards or 200 yards.

I know it shows more a median or mode figure and not average, but not something I can rely on, think regular gap testing is better indicator.

But that comes back to how you use the information, I thought I knew my distances only GG showed me the difference between what I thought and what was fact, even though I can hit my 7I 150 off a range mat or on a monitor the weather has an effect, I don't need GG for that, but what it did and does show is that my accuracy into the green from 150 or 100 with my 7I needs improving, so to me it's how you use the information you gather.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Interesting post and one I have an affinity with. My handicap may have gone upward in 2016 but I feel I have made some real progress in terms of ball striking, bunker play, putting etc. However I've had issues translating that into scoring on the course. I know that it's what golf is about, but the issue was more about the two car crash holes that ruined otherwise acceptable rounds that often threatened to scare buffer zones.

In terms of practice, I've started keeping some detailed statistics for each area to see how well I'm approving. It's flagged some interesting trends and some baby steps forward.

 

[Dasit]

But that comes back to how you use the information, I thought I knew my distances only GG showed me the difference between what I thought and what was fact, even though I can hit my 7I 150 off a range mat or on a monitor the weather has an effect, I don't need GG for that, but what it did and does show is that my accuracy into the green from 150 or 100 with my 7I needs improving, so to me it's how you use the information you gather.

Thanks

that is a very good point.

I need to start using data like that to see if when I choose my 7 iron for an approach, am I choosing the right club. I like a lot of people find myself short of the hole a lot more than long of the hole.

 

[GreggerKBR]

Oh how very true!! I assume though that it tells you for each round each individual shot? So you can look and see that you say used your seven iron eight times. Three time you hit it three inches, five times between 90 and 15 yards (say). The game golf recorded average would be nonsense but you could use it to look at the five decent shots and get an accurate averagely doing the maths yourself.
Does it work like that?
If you buy it, use it like that for a while until you are striking most balls well can you then reset it to start from scratch so you start again with more accurate averages?

Hi! yes you can edit/delete rounds if you want to, or just look at last 5, last 10 etc.
It's not just averages, it's more than that. That category would be "Club Performance" - "average distance" only - it has more parameters.
It also has Strokes Gained, Off the Tee, Approach the Green, Scoring etc.
on Approach screen, it shows you a useful scatter pattern, and you can edit parameters such as distance, lie types and select rounds (individual or multiple).
It will show you "long", "short" and "typical" and also average.

EG. I've been battling a bit of a flat hook with the driver for a while. GG enables me to see progress from "all rounds" to "last 5 rounds" and see if the pattern is changing.

Have a watch of this - should give you an insight.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XDPitnMEWis

Cheers.

 

[Deleted Member 1156]

Interesting post and one I have an affinity with. My handicap may have gone upward in 2016 but I feel I have made some real progress in terms of ball striking, bunker play, putting etc. However I've had issues translating that into scoring on the course. I know that it's what golf is about, but the issue was more about the two car crash holes that ruined otherwise acceptable rounds that often threatened to scare buffer zones.

In terms of practice, I've started keeping some detailed statistics for each area to see how well I'm approving. It's flagged some interesting trends and some baby steps forward.

How can your handicap go up if you have improved probably 2 of the 3 most important areas of the game when it comes to scoring, namely ball striking and putting?

 

[HomerJSimpson]

How can your handicap go up if you have improved probably 2 of the 3 most important areas of the game when it comes to scoring, namely ball striking and putting?

Beacause I simply wasn't well last year and got 0.1 back every time (more or less) thanks to a number of bad holes per round. In most cases I'd post 14-15 acceptable holes and undo the work with some huge scores. Getting back to rude health and being able to walk/concentrate properly for the full 18 this season should make a difference.

 

[pokerjoke]

Beacause I simply wasn't well last year and got 0.1 back every time (more or less) thanks to a number of bad holes per round. In most cases I'd post 14-15 acceptable holes and undo the work with some huge scores. Getting back to rude health and being able to walk/concentrate properly for the full 18 this season should make a difference.[/QUOTE

Well enough to play golf,well enough to have 14/15 good holes but not well enough to stop having those 2 bad holes that have now turned in to 3 or 4.

Whilst I sympathise that you feel you were ill if it was that bad you wouldn't be able to play golf,just sounds like a whole lot of excuses.

Of course you will get the couple of people that feel I'm being a little mean but I certainly don't,after 6 years of being in the blame game it gets all to tedius for me.

As I'm on Homers ignore can someone pass on the message,thx.

For me the true test of improvement is handicap that has been alluded to,if someone is improving in a few areas the handicap should fall unless there are other areas that need improving also.

I have improved my chipping and iron play considerably but my putting and Driving has been worse hence my handicap going up slightly,when all 4 tick I should see a cut.

 

[londonlewis]

Not to discourage Game Golf, but myself and most people I know who bought it used it for a few times then it became more hassle than it was worth.

Having to charge it for every round, syncing it with iphone, remembering to tag every shot before you hit. I was spending a lot of time editing rounds on my PC after as I would forget to tag strokes like putts, or find it didn't pick up a shot so was saying my drive was 400 yards etc

Hi Dasit, just checking to see if you were thinking of selling on your game golf or not. Only re-asking in case you didn't see my previous comment

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Beacause I simply wasn't well last year and got 0.1 back every time (more or less) thanks to a number of bad holes per round. In most cases I'd post 14-15 acceptable holes and undo the work with some huge scores. Getting back to rude health and being able to walk/concentrate properly for the full 18 this season should make a difference.[/QUOTE

Well enough to play golf,well enough to have 14/15 good holes but not well enough to stop having those 2 bad holes that have now turned in to 3 or 4.

Whilst I sympathise that you feel you were ill if it was that bad you wouldn't be able to play golf,just sounds like a whole lot of excuses.

Of course you will get the couple of people that feel I'm being a little mean but I certainly don't,after 6 years of being in the blame game it gets all to tedius for me.

As I'm on Homers ignore can someone pass on the message,thx.

For me the true test of improvement is handicap that has been alluded to,if someone is improving in a few areas the handicap should fall unless there are other areas that need improving also.

I have improved my chipping and iron play considerably but my putting and Driving has been worse hence my handicap going up slightly,when all 4 tick I should see a cut.

Homer