How can this be a par 5?

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FuzzyDuck

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I played today at Ferndown Forest shortness of the par 5 14th stuck me as odd. I'm not the longest hitter in the world and usually would need to hit a driver and two very well hit 3 woods to get anywhere near the green.

So I teed (yellows) off and managed to put the ball just past a big oak tree in the centre of the fairway, about 160 yards from the tee. Walked to my ball and couldn't see the flag due to the dogleg but noted a ditch running across the hole so elected to hit a 7 iron (around 120 yards) to come up short. When I got to my ball I found I only had around 95 yards to the flag and so hit a 9 iron level with the pin and 10 feet wide. One putted for a birdie. To cap this off I noted the SI was 7 and because my handicap is 25 I received 2 shots and so it was a rare 5 pointer. However looking at my shots the flag was only around 370 yards from the yellow tee.

I thought the minimum distance for a par 5 was 470 yards, so how can this hole be classed as such?

The distance on the card for the yellow tee was officially 429 yards.
 
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Wolf

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Something seems a little odd there even a quick look at the website things don't match up.

Their scorecard as you state shows it to be a Par 5 of 450yds off the whites and 429yds off the yellow tee box. Yet the yardage planner shows it to be a Par 4 of 403 yds off the white tees and 365yds off yellows.

So perhaps it's not a par 5 at all and scorecards need amending to match the planner. That being said the planner shows the 15th to be a Par 3 at 479yds 🤔
 

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FuzzyDuck

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I wondering if they have changed the layout of the course, the app I use on my watch constantly said I was playing a different hole, e.g. app said I was on the 4th when I was actually playing the 13th.
 

rosecott

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I played today at Ferndown Forest shortness of the par 5 14th stuck me as odd. I'm not the longest hitter in the world and usually would need to hit a driver and two very well hit 3 woods to get anywhere near the green.

So I teed (yellows) off and managed to put the ball just past a big oak tree in the centre of the fairway, about 160 yards from the tee. Walked to my ball and couldn't see the flag due to the dogleg but noted a ditch running across the hole so elected to hit a 7 iron (around 120 yards) to come up short. When I got to my ball I found I only had around 95 yards to the flag and so hit a 9 iron level with the pin and 10 feet wide. One putted for a birdie. To cap this off I noted the SI was 7 and because my handicap is 25 I received 2 shots and so it was a rare 5 pointer. However looking at my shots the flag was only around 370 yards from the yellow tee.

I thought the minimum distance for a par 5 was 470 yards, so how can this hole be classed as such?

The distance on the card for the yellow tee was officially 429 yards.
CONGU sets the starting point for par 5s at 440 yards and par 4s can go up to 500. In such situations, many clubs would set the par at 5 for the whites and 4 for the yellows.
 

HomerJSimpson

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To be honest I would simply bank the 5 points and move on. Given the anomalies between scorecard and planner Wolf showed they must have changed some hole designs and simply haven't caught up with everything
 

Liverbirdie

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Although yardage is probably the main ticker for par, other things are taken into account.

There is a par 5 (yellows and whites) at Carden park cheshire course that is only 425 and 455 yards off them two tees, respectively.

The drive is pretty straight forward, but as the green is perched on a hill, it is a 3 shotter for the majority as there are about 5-7 bunkers below the surface of the green and bushes through the back.

Bigger hitters may be able to hit it high and stop, but most will either end up in the bunkers below or in the bushes through the back, because they cant stop it in time.

I'm sure the average score on that hole is more like 5-7 than 3-4.
 
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Par is just a number.

Appreciate it is essential to work out a stableford, but for a strokeplay event or even a professional tournament, it's not relevant.

It's often the case at pro events that they are playing a par 72, that is reduced to a 71 or 70 for the Pros. Basically creating a 500 yard par 4 (Bethpage and Carnoustie did this). Ultimately they are messing with the players head by printing par 4 on the card.

Similar to the 13th at Augusta, which pretty much every guy goes for in 2 now - unless they miss their drive. I believe it is around the 510 yard mark, maybe 520 with a back pin. I believe they are purchasing land to move this back, but would be interesting if they moved it to 500 yards one year and called it a par 4. No doubt people would absolutely lose it.
 

rulefan

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I thought the minimum distance for a par 5 was 470 yards, so how can this hole be classed as such?

The distance on the card for the yellow tee was officially 429 yards.
Until 1916 the USGA said the low limit was 426 yards. Perhaps they haven't reprinted their cards since :eek:
 
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Agreed with the idea that the par for the hole isn't and shouldn't be solely based on distance. A course local to me (Chesterton Valley) 7th plays about 460 from the whites which you'd think is a get on in two job, trouble is it doglegs right to left pretty much immediately off about 50 yards from the tee - being too tight you can't really take driver unless you are a really big hitter with a hooky draw, always need a 3 wood/hybrid off the tee then a big 3 wood/hybrid to leave a chip on.
 

Foxholer

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I played today at Ferndown Forest shortness of the par 5 14th stuck me as odd. I'm not the longest hitter in the world and usually would need to hit a driver and two very well hit 3 woods to get anywhere near the green.

So I teed (yellows) off and managed to put the ball just past a big oak tree in the centre of the fairway, about 160 yards from the tee. Walked to my ball and couldn't see the flag due to the dogleg but noted a ditch running across the hole so elected to hit a 7 iron (around 120 yards) to come up short. When I got to my ball I found I only had around 95 yards to the flag and so hit a 9 iron level with the pin and 10 feet wide. One putted for a birdie. To cap this off I noted the SI was 7 and because my handicap is 25 I received 2 shots and so it was a rare 5 pointer. However looking at my shots the flag was only around 370 yards from the yellow tee.

I thought the minimum distance for a par 5 was 470 yards, so how can this hole be classed as such?

The distance on the card for the yellow tee was officially 429 yards.
Looks they've made some changes and you weren't playing off the latest card! I've checked their website which has both Scorecard and Yardage chart on available for download. The Yardage shows 14 as a 365yd (from Yellows) Par 4. How's your memory? Yardage Chart also shows 15 as a Par 3, contrary to the Scorecard which has it as a Par 5! The total yardage doesn't match the scorecard either, though it is not that far off - though I haven't summed the numbers from the Yardage Chart to check if that matches!
 

Swinglowandslow

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The 15th would be the par 5. The tee shot is an iron before it doglegs hard right. Go straight and you are in a ditch( several to choose from), or trees.
Same with next shot, dog legging left. Cutting off the dogleg is not an option.
Third shot into the green.
So, it's two irons and an approach iron in reality.
It is a course where one could (should?)play without taking a driver.
 

jim8flog

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The requirement for par to based solely on yardage changed somewhere around the late the late 80s early 90s. At that time, where I play, 3 par 4s were changed to par 5s using this discretion. One of which is only 437 but that has since gone back to being a par 4.
 

Tongo

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I played there last year and the hole in question was off a tee that was only about 360 yards from the green. So i just played it as a par 4.
 
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The course is a SSS 66 v Par of 69. Some places seem to like to get their par to 69 or 70 if possible even if the course doesn't warrant it.
My old club was a Par69 SSS 69. They lengthened a good strong par4 a little turned it to an easy Par5 to get to a Par70. Course was assessed and the SSS was left at 69. Absolute waste of time
 
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