Home wifi

[cliveb]

Mesh is the way to go.. Extenders are pointless as they are not efficient. Devices almost never switch between networks automatically. A mesh will take care of that..

I'm aware of the problem of "sticky clients" that desperately cling on to a poor AP signal even when there's a better one in range. What I've had difficulty in getting info about is how a mesh system solves this problem. It's the client device that decides when to seek another AP, after all.

From what I've read, it sounds as if the nodes in a mesh system communicate with each other and if they conclude that a client would be better off switching, the one it's currently connected to deliberately stops responding so the client has to reconnect (and in so doing gets the other node, because that's the only one that the system decides should respond). If anyone has in depth knowledge of this I'm all ears.
[EDIT: the above speculation is for when the clients don't support fast roaming. I know about how 802.11k/v/r is used to guide clients, but I suspect the mobile devices in my house don't support those protocols - it seems impossible to find out]

 

[Bdill93]

I don’t understand any of the above pretty much. I’m sitting here in the sofa on my phone on 4G as I’m disconnected from my Sky wifi due to my gf is sharing her screen with work.

It’s absolutely useless and has been all throughout the lockdown.

This x1000. They lost me straight away.

I have sky too, pay for super fast broadband and its absolutely dreadful. Strangely I have just called within the last 5 minutes to sort it out and they've been highly uphelpful too. I dont understand half the questions they were asking me and I'm hardly a dinosaur at 27!

Dont even get me started on my connection when I try and play xbox!

 

[Deleted member 15344]

I'm aware of the problem of "sticky clients" that desperately cling on to a poor AP signal even when there's a better one in range. What I've had difficulty in getting info about is how a mesh system solves this problem. It's the client device that decides when to seek another AP, after all.

From what I've read, it sounds as if the nodes in a mesh system communicate with each other and if they conclude that a client would be better off switching, the one it's currently connected to deliberately stops responding so the client has to reconnect (and in so doing gets the other node, because that's the only one that the system decides should respond). If anyone has in depth knowledge of this I'm all ears.

A Mesh doesn’t solve sticky clients - it’s mainly down to the clients but it also includes power balancing all your AP’s.

For example what a lot of people do is have all AP’s on full power so the device will constantly be connected to the one it first connected to until it’s out of range

You need to do a full heat map to ensure the AP’s are power balanced with little overlap so the device should go to the one with the strongest signal - even then it’s not full proof and not many APs disconnect clients to remove the sticky client issue

 

[azazel]

A Mesh doesn’t solve sticky clients - it’s mainly down to the clients but it also includes power balancing all your AP’s.

For example what a lot of people do is have all AP’s on full power so the device will constantly be connected to the one it first connected to until it’s out of range

You need to do a full heat map to ensure the AP’s are power balanced with little overlap so the device should go to the one with the strongest signal - even then it’s not full proof and not many APs disconnect clients to remove the sticky client issue

So, when someone said elsewhere in the thread that setting up this stuff was a five minute job...

 

[Deleted member 29109]

So, when someone said elsewhere in the thread that setting up this stuff was a five minute job...

It is in most instances.

I set our 3 mesh outlets up last Marc, and other than moving one to a different room they haven't been touched since.

I named the WiFi network the same as the one our EE router used, and gave it the same password. Everything just reconnected when the mesh had booted up.

The app guides you through the setup process.

 

[Robster59]

I don’t understand any of the above pretty much. I’m sitting here in the sofa on my phone on 4G as I’m disconnected from my Sky wifi due to my gf is sharing her screen with work.

It’s absolutely useless and has been all throughout the lockdown.

This x1000. They lost me straight away.

I have sky too, pay for super fast broadband and its absolutely dreadful. Strangely I have just called within the last 5 minutes to sort it out and they've been highly uphelpful too. I dont understand half the questions they were asking me and I'm hardly a dinosaur at 27!

Dont even get me started on my connection when I try and play xbox!

I have to say I fully understand where you are coming from when reading all the above as it can come across as being extremely complicated to change but in reality it isn't.
Part of the problem is that whilst the Broadband providers may promise high speeds, quite often the routers they give you just aren't up to the job. Generally they are given away as part of the deal so are built down to a price, have limitations and are not up to the task in the same way ones provided by big firms such as TP-Link, etc. are. The standard Sky router I got was giving us all sort of issues on WiFi, even by using a plug-in WiFI range extenders. I was experiencing some of the issues described above. Now, with the mesh systems, my partner and I can both video conference at the same time, we can use our laptops, even stream stuff on the TV, and I am only getting 35mbps in at the house (which is relatively slow by modern standards).
If you imagine the signal is coming down a pipe like water and you have a valve at the end which isn't big enough to cope with that flow of water, no matter how big the flow of water is, the valve will strangle the flow into your house. And then the more taps you open, the slower the flow is at each tap.
This effect is more seen in the WiFi signal as the standard router can't cope with the demand. By using the mesh system, you disable the WiFi signal in your stock router and that is all handled by the mesh and because you have number of "hubs" dotted around the house, you get a strong signal pretty much everywhere. Lots of things can affect your signal such as thick walls, etc. and a mesh system helps you to get around that by having hubs in the areas where you need them. (For us it's the Study, Living Room and Kitchen).
This article may help.
Mesh Systems Explained
and this video

 

[Mudball]

I'm aware of the problem of "sticky clients" that desperately cling on to a poor AP signal even when there's a better one in range. What I've had difficulty in getting info about is how a mesh system solves this problem. It's the client device that decides when to seek another AP, after all.

From what I've read, it sounds as if the nodes in a mesh system communicate with each other and if they conclude that a client would be better off switching, the one it's currently connected to deliberately stops responding so the client has to reconnect (and in so doing gets the other node, because that's the only one that the system decides should respond). If anyone has in depth knowledge of this I'm all ears.
[EDIT: the above speculation is for when the clients don't support fast roaming. I know about how 802.11k/v/r is used to guide clients, but I suspect the mobile devices in my house don't support those protocols - it seems impossible to find out]

two things play a part (as i understand it)
1) when you use extenders you probably have 2 diffeernt networks with 2 ssid. Say "living room" (LR) and "upstairs". if you mobile is downstairs and on full LR then its great... you walk upstairs and the network starts dropping.. but it is still connected to LR. It is highly unlikely that the device will switch to US from LR unless it looses LR completely or you manually switch to US. So you may be connected to the weaker LR even though u r upstairs.

2) Mesh solves the problem in 2 ways..
a) Both the routers pump out the same SSID.. So you only have one network at home.. Called LR.
b) The routers talk to each other. In the Asus AirMesh, they claim that they switch a client from one router to the other based on signal strength and other 'AI' calculations. You can also tether a non-moving client e.g. a thermostat or a doorbell to a specific one.

Our map at the moment

 

[Robster59]

It is in most instances.

I set our 3 mesh outlets up last Marc, and other than moving one to a different room they haven't been touched since.

I named the WiFi network the same as the one our EE router used, and gave it the same password. Everything just reconnected when the mesh had booted up.

The app guides you through the setup process.

This. it's pretty much the process I followed. I read some articles where people want to do more complex things with their system, but if you are happy with the standard setup, then it is a very simple job. And the standard setup is more than adequate for most people.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

So, when someone said elsewhere in the thread that setting up this stuff was a five minute job...

It all depends on the size of the Mesh and the sort of network you want , in a house you prob only really need one further AP upstairs but you can have two which can mesh

There are also a number of AP’s out their like Ubiquity indoor which do have the ability to self power balance by looking at the other AP and adjusting their power

I use Meraki AP’s in my house

One is connected downstairs into a switch , the other upstairs Meshed to the one downstairs , I created my own profile for the Radios , when I go upstairs my devices disconnect from the one downstairs.

It can be as easy or as complex as you want - many ways to do it

 

[Deleted member 25172]

I have to say I fully understand where you are coming from when reading all the above as it can come across as being extremely complicated to change but in reality it isn't.
Part of the problem is that whilst the Broadband providers may promise high speeds, quite often the routers they give you just aren't up to the job. Generally they are given away as part of the deal so are built down to a price, have limitations and are not up to the task in the same way ones provided by big firms such as TP-Link, etc. are. The standard Sky router I got was giving us all sort of issues on WiFi, even by using a plug-in WiFI range extenders. I was experiencing some of the issues described above. Now, with the mesh systems, my partner and I can both video conference at the same time, we can use our laptops, even stream stuff on the TV, and I am only getting 35mbps in at the house (which is relatively slow by modern standards).
If you imagine the signal is coming down a pipe like water and you have a valve at the end which isn't big enough to cope with that flow of water, no matter how big the flow of water is, the valve will strangle the flow into your house. And then the more taps you open, the slower the flow is at each tap.
This effect is more seen in the WiFi signal as the standard router can't cope with the demand. By using the mesh system, you disable the WiFi signal in your stock router and that is all handled by the mesh and because you have number of "hubs" dotted around the house, you get a strong signal pretty much everywhere. Lots of things can affect your signal such as thick walls, etc. and a mesh system helps you to get around that by having hubs in the areas where you need them. (For us it's the Study, Living Room and Kitchen).
This article may help.
Mesh Systems Explained
and this video

Thanks! That made sense even to a tech-illiterate like me.

The strange thing for me is that my gf doesn't have nearly the same issues as I have. It's like her computer is "stealing" all the wifi, and I'm left there sitting with no internet. I've had 2 different laptops since we started working from home, and it's been the same with both. Worst is when she's using Sharepoint. Before she starts that, I just tell my colleagues I'm gonna be offline for as long as she's using it.

So frustrating.

 

[Robster59]

Thanks! That made sense even to a tech-illiterate like me.

The strange thing for me is that my gf doesn't have nearly the same issues as I have. It's like her computer is "stealing" all the wifi, and I'm left there sitting with no internet. I've had 2 different laptops since we started working from home, and it's been the same with both. Worst is when she's using Sharepoint. Before she starts that, I just tell my colleagues I'm gonna be offline for as long as she's using it.

So frustrating.

Do you know what speed you're getting into your house? You can run a test on the Sky website that will tell you this or you can ask your GF to do one on hers. It's probably best to find that out first.
It also may be she's close to the router and you're quite a distance away so it may be going to her laptop in preference. A mesh system would negate this providing you've got decent enough speed.

 

[Deleted member 25172]

Do you know what speed you're getting into your house? You can run a test on the Sky website that will tell you this or you can ask your GF to do one on hers. It's probably best to find that out first.
It also may be she's close to the router and you're quite a distance away so it may be going to her laptop in preference. A mesh system would negate this providing you've got decent enough speed.

I've checked now and it says we have 10mb/s, with "Estimated upload speed 0.7 Mb/s" and "Normally available download speed 3.7-8.5 mb/s".

What puzzles me is that it says we have no devices connected? Which obviously is wrong as I'm writing this post using the internet from the wifi.

We both sit in the livingroom, and I'm the closest of the two of us to the router, only about I'd say 3-4 feet away from it.

 

[Robster59]

I've checked now and it says we have 10mb/s, with "Estimated upload speed 0.7 Mb/s" and "Normally available download speed 3.7-8.5 mb/s".

What puzzles me is that it says we have no devices connected? Which obviously is wrong as I'm writing this post using the internet from the wifi.

We both sit in the livingroom, and I'm the closest of the two of us to the router, only about I'd say 3-4 feet away from it.

That is pretty slow and so the 10mb/s will be sucked up by video conferencing but tbh I'm at the limit of my possible solutions. I would hope there are people on here who can perhaps give more insight as to why there is a difference. Are you both using laptops? It may be they're both using the same channel. If they could use different channels that may help.
This explains a little about the difference between the two channels
What’s the Difference Between 2.4 and 5-Ghz Wi-Fi (and Which Should I Use)?

 

[Deleted member 25172]

That is pretty slow and so the 10mb/s will be sucked up by video conferencing but tbh I'm at the limit of my possible solutions. I would hope there are people on here who can perhaps give more insight as to why there is a difference. Are you both using laptops? It may be they're both using the same channel. If they could use different channels that may help.
This explains a little about the difference between the two channels
What’s the Difference Between 2.4 and 5-Ghz Wi-Fi (and Which Should I Use)?

I mean, perhaps it’s just a slow connection that needs to be upgraded to work properly for 2 people working at home at the same time.
Thanks for helping!

 

[Green Man]

My ISP is PlusNet but the router they supplied was rubbish so I configured my old BT Home Hub 6 to work with PlusNet.

However the kids are constantly complaining about the WIFI so I have just bought a TP Link Modem/Router which I'm hoping to run in Modem only mode.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B08DVGFRXW/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Also bought TP Link Deco S4 system which I'm hoping to use as the router.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B0851D6MXY/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I read a bit about it this morning and it seems it will work. Just need to wait until tomorrow to set it up and find out.

 

[cliveb]

A Mesh doesn’t solve sticky clients - it’s mainly down to the clients but it also includes power balancing all your AP’s.

So what's the point of a mesh instead of multiple APs? I thought the whole point of a mesh system is that the APs in it talk to each other and have some way to force clients to migrate. If they don't, I may as well just get multiple APs and give them all the same SSID/password.

two things play a part (as i understand it)
1) when you use extenders you probably have 2 diffeernt networks with 2 ssid. Say "living room" (LR) and "upstairs".

I'm absolutely not interested in WiFi extenders - they backhaul over the same WiFi band that all your other devices are using.

2) Mesh solves the problem in 2 ways..
a) Both the routers pump out the same SSID.. So you only have one network at home.. Called LR.

You can do exactly the same thing with normal APs.

b) The routers talk to each other. In the Asus AirMesh, they claim that they switch a client from one router to the other based on signal strength and other 'AI' calculations.

Right. I understand the sales pitch. What I've never seen explained is how they force a client to switch if it doesn't support 802.11k/v/r.
I'm beginning to suspect that they don't - in which case I may as well just get multiple APs.

 

[Robster59]

If it's any help, my Mesh system is set up as an Access Point, it's an option on the App.

 

[Old Skier]

I mean, perhaps it’s just a slow connection that needs to be upgraded to work properly for 2 people working at home at the same time.
Thanks for helping!

Might help,if the GF is close to the router to get her a Cat5 cable for her to plug straight into the router.

 

[Rooter]

New router arrives tomorrow from sky, at least it will have 5ghz. I will look at creating the Sky Q mesh using my mini Q boxes, but if it fails, I think those TP link mesh 9 look good, also saw eero with good reviews..

Thanks guys.

 

[need_my_wedge]

I currently have BT Halo 1 (infinity) which gives a 69mb download speed. No problems around the house, I work from home connected to the office vpn and remoting on to my office systems. Use Teams constantly for video calls. Wedge junior is pretty much gaming or streaming constantly, and Mrs wedge is streaming her tv from Japan. Never had any connection issues or problems with sluggish response on the wifi.

Did speak to Bt today and have upgraded to full fibre with 150mb download, for an extra couple of quid a month. I probably didn't need to, but for the price difference, it seemed silly not too. Fibre to property and get their new smart hub with it too. Only have to wait until mid March for it?