Hogan & rolling the wrists

[ManinBlack]

Of course you are free to believe what you wish. Can you explain to me what the problem is to which rolling the wrists is the solution?

It's not a problem at all. It's the fact that, if the club is swung on a flat plane with it going well behind the player, the left forearm must rotate clockwise, its physically impossible to make a proper swing without doing it. If, on the other hand, the swing is made very steeply with the hands kept much more in front of you it's not necessary to rotate. Try it, it's quite obvious how it works.

 

[ManinBlack]

Of course you are free to believe what you wish. Can you explain to me what the problem is to which rolling the wrists is the solution?

What a strange thing to say. It's not only what I believe, it's how Hogan said he swung the club & what one of the world's best coaches says you should do!

 

[bobmac]

You can however swing back on a flat plane without fanning the clubface open

 

[ManinBlack]

You can however swing back on a flat plane without fanning the clubface open

Without rotating the left forearm? I've just tried to do this & the result is that the club goes back on a very steep plane, what Jim Hardy would call a "Two Plane" swing. What SocketRocket described is, I think, his own steep swing. The wrist setting & non rotation are typical Two Plane moves. I find it physically impossible to get to the right position at the top without left forearm rotation. Seems like Hogan had the same problem but it didn't seem to do him any harm!

 

[bobmac]

Can you take a short backswing where your left arm is pointing to 9 o'clock and keep your thumbs pointing upwards?

 

[Foxholer]

...Look at the testing machine 'Iron Byron' that doesn't rotate the shaft and hits the ball out the middle every time.

Er...Check this video (of True Temper's Iron Byron) out - from 3 mins - and you will hear/see the 3 simulated movements involved - one of which is the 'rotation of the arms' (Rolling of wrists).

Btw. I believe our comments were 'at cross purposes' in several places. The main difference seems to be your instsitence that NO 'wrist roll' should take place during the (entire?) swing. I believe 'wrist roll' is an quite fine as part of the follow-through - as shown in the oft-quoted Luke Donald swing I posted.

 

[SocketRocket]

Without rotating the left forearm? I've just tried to do this & the result is that the club goes back on a very steep plane, what Jim Hardy would call a "Two Plane" swing. What SocketRocket described is, I think, his own steep swing. The wrist setting & non rotation are typical Two Plane moves. I find it physically impossible to get to the right position at the top without left forearm rotation. Seems like Hogan had the same problem but it didn't seem to do him any harm!

I dont have a a steep swingplane. Why should I. I explained that a small forearm rotation is ok as long as its removed early in the downswing. Did you see the video I posted.

 

[SocketRocket]

Er...Check this video (of True Temper's Iron Byron) out - from 3 mins - and you will hear/see the 3 simulated movements involved - one of which is the 'rotation of the arms' (Rolling of wrists).

Btw. I believe our comments were 'at cross purposes' in several places. The main difference seems to be your instsitence that NO 'wrist roll' should take place during the (entire?) swing. I believe 'wrist roll' is an quite fine as part of the follow-through - as shown in the oft-quoted Luke Donald swing I posted.

I agree with that, what im saying wrist rolling through impact creates inconsistency unless you are extremely well coordinated.

 

[Depreston]

Found Mark Crossfield vid on wrists last night very interesting the part around forearm rotation

 

[Diamond]

Just resurrecting this thread as I was told last year to to rotate my arms during my swing. At the time I believe it generated more power and length but it was something I stopped doing mainly down to the amount of swing thoughts and consistency.
The advice at the time would have been based on my out to in steep swing and lack of hip rotation.
I can slip into swaying, head movement and a steep swing. At the moment my steep swing is killing me on the softer fairways. I am going to start to rotate my arms again at the range this week.

 

[bobmac]

I am going to start to rotate my arms again at the range this week.

It's up to you but I'd strongly advise against it.
I'd focus all your efforts on improving your swing path

 

[Diamond]

It's up to you but I'd strongly advise against it.
I'd focus all your efforts on improving your swing path

I think the arm rotation helps my swing path be less steep.

 

[ManinBlack]

I think the arm rotation helps my swing path be less steep.

This is what Jim Hardy says: "As you turn past the midway point in the backswing, your left forearm should begin to turn in a clockwise motion so that the back of the forearm faces the sky". ("The Plane Truth for Golfers" P. 35) This only applies, however, in a "One Plane" swing, i.e. a swing where the arms & shoulders are on the same plane at the top (think Matt Kuchar / Hunter Mahan") as opposed to Bubba / Phil. Hardy says that in a Two Plane, i.e. steep, swing there's no need to rotate the left forearm. So you really need to decide what kind of swing you have.

You seem to have elements of both types of swing. May be a good idea to read the book. It has helped me a lot.

 

[Diamond]

This is what Jim Hardy says: "As you turn past the midway point in the backswing, your left forearm should begin to turn in a clockwise motion so that the back of the forearm faces the sky". ("The Plane Truth for Golfers" P. 35) This only applies, however, in a "One Plane" swing, i.e. a swing where the arms & shoulders are on the same plane at the top (think Matt Kuchar / Hunter Mahan") as opposed to Bubba / Phil. Hardy says that in a Two Plane, i.e. steep, swing there's no need to rotate the left forearm. So you really need to decide what kind of swing you have.

You seem to have elements of both types of swing. May be a good idea to read the book. It has helped me a lot.

Will do

 

[bobmac]

Can I just check one thing please?
Are you talking about rolling your forearms on the backswing or downswing?

 

[Diamond]

Can I just check one thing please?
Are you talking about rolling your forearms on the backswing or downswing?

Hi Bobmac. I was told to roll them on the backswing to help shallow out my swing which is far too steep and out to in.

 

[bobmac]

Hi Bobmac. I was told to roll them on the backswing to help shallow out my swing which is far too steep and out to in.

Watch from 2:36 and note what he says at 3:16

So while the forearm roll flattens the shaft on the backswing, it steepens it on the downswing making your problem worse.
As I suggested before, improve your swing path as that will also flatten the angle of attack.

 

[Depreston]

It’s a concept I always flirt with

Rolling the forearms in the downswing the ‘feeling’ deffo changes my ball flight dramatically

Eric cogorno is an advocate of this if you’re a fader slicer of the ball

 

[Diamond]

Interesting video. I think my better shots are when I stop at the L (or at least I think I do) and also have forearm rotation at the end of backswing and start of downswing.

 

[aaajjj7589]

I had a lesson a few weeks back. Advice was to rotate my wrists so that my right palm is facing the sky where I 'would be able to hold up a tray of drinks' in theory. Been doing it ever since the lesson and I have 100% gotten worse and my confidence has gone in my shots. In fact I find I top the ball now - something I never did in recent months.

One of the big problems I have is squaring my club face. It's a problem so I'm probably exaggerating my issue with rotating the wrists. My ball goes off to the right frequently but it's not a slice - the ball goes straight but on the wrong line.