garyinderry
Ryder Cup Winner
That's more to do with the wrist position.
Ben has a slight cup and Dustin's is severely bowed.
Ben has a slight cup and Dustin's is severely bowed.
Hogan & rolling the wrists
- Thread starter Maninblack4612
- Start date
Maninblack4612
Tour Winner
I disagree, Dustin couldn't possibly get into that position if he rotated his left forearm during the backswing, nor Ben if he didn't.
SocketRocket
Ryder Cup Winner
No, its not, it would be open with a cupped left wrist if it was.
bobmac
Major Champion
MIB said it was ALMOST pointing to the ground.
I'm well aware of that thank you.
Swinglowandslow
Well-known member
How can you disagree that Dustin Johnson has a bowed wrist. It's there for everyone to see. Watch any analysis of his swing.However, in my view, to get that bowed wrist the left forearm rotates anti-clockwise, does it not?
If I have read this correctly, Hogan is saying on backswing, rotate clockwise( and open the face) and on downswing roll the wrists to close it back square ?
As for bowing the wrist on backswing,
I find it very hard to do that, not having strong wrists and forearms , so I tend to cup the wrist, thus opening the face of the club.
On the downswing that has to change. Making a conscious effort to roll the wrist helps.
I know it isn't the best way to swing ( bowed wrist is in fashion), but bowed wrist is out for me.!
Maninblack4612
Tour Winner
I should have said "rotated his forearm clockwise" He couldn't have a bowed wrist if he did that.
Swinglowandslow
Well-known member
No big problemðŸ˜
If I read your first post correctly, you are a wrist roller to some extent like me because you cup your wrist on backswing? And that is what Hogan was advocating.?
If so, I find it encouraging ( because I can't do a full backswing without cupping, and I go wrong in sequencing if I don't do a full backswing😀)
I recently saw a tv program teaching golf which described swinging without a bowed wrist as a "fatal flaw"
So there's no hope for me😀
bobmac
Major Champion
Swinglowandslow
Well-known member
It takes all sorts I suppose..........
Me or the teacher?ðŸ˜ðŸ˜
bobmac
Major Champion
The teacher.
Some say he plays so well because he has a bowed wrist.
Others say he plays well despite having a bowed wrist.
I favour the latter.
Some say he plays so well because he has a bowed wrist.
Others say he plays well despite having a bowed wrist.
I favour the latter.
Maninblack4612
Tour Winner
With a bowed wrist you'd expect him to draw the ball, yet he does the opposite. He must rotate clockwise on the downswing.
SocketRocket
Ryder Cup Winner
For me the wrists shouldnt break down and flip at the ball, it creates inconsistency and reduces the leverage a straight(ish) left arm, flat/slightly bowed wrist creates.
Maninblack4612
Tour Winner
Flipping at the ball suggests, to me, hitting with the hands without the upper body rotating. The wrists have to get from a fully cocked position to the position they are in at impact. The rapid uncocking is what produces clubhead speed but they must flex at right angles to the swing plane, not roll one over the other. Jim Hardy explains this in his book "The Release"
Roops
Head Pro
Good analysis of DJ's club delivery
Jensen
Tour Rookie
I watched a great YouTube video by Eric Cogorno, that helped me.
He demonstrates what happens in the backswing when you stand up out of posture. The club moves further away from your body creating excessive wrist/forearm roll. The wrists roll clockwise fanning the clubface open - disaster
He demonstrates what happens in the backswing when you stand up out of posture. The club moves further away from your body creating excessive wrist/forearm roll. The wrists roll clockwise fanning the clubface open - disaster
SocketRocket
Ryder Cup Winner
For me there is a great deal of misconception over wrist cock and how this powers the swing The wrists can only set and release in an up and down manner, this movement does create an amount of club speed but the main force on the ball is created by the arms falling and the body rotating. Trying to use 'Lag ' is something people think they should be doing but have a complete misunderstanding of how the golf swing works, it can cause all manner of bad golf shots.
Maninblack4612
Tour Winner
I think that "lag" is a term used to stop people uncocking the wrists too early & flicking at the ball. Looking at the pros, Garcia is an extreme example, the wrists cock more just as the downswing is starting. The action of the upper body turning the arms forces the wrists to uncock, it's almost impossible for it not to happen. Bobby Clampett in "The Impact Zone" says to hold the wrist set until the last moment. Jim Hardy in "The Release" says to start hitting with the right hand (in the correct plane) from the very top but, then again, they were describing two different types of swing.
bobmac
Major Champion
Maninblack4612
Tour Winner
And I bet some of that lag was created on the downswing.
Foxholer
Blackballed
This reminds me of a discussion we has several years ago! Never truly resolved/agreed and I doubt it will be here!
FWIW...Firstly, wrists can move in 2 axes - the up and down (your set/release that is abduction/adduction or radial/ulnar deviation) one that you state plus Flexion/extension (bow/cup). The degree of bow/cup is 'personal'. In that pic of Hogan in MiB's post 10, he certainly has a cupped (extended) right wrist! As has been posted, DJ bows his left wrist (so extended) significantly.
I no longer have a copy of 'Five Lessons' but, from memory, Hogan wrote about left wrist supination (in the follow through). This (back of left hand facing down for a rightee) is a movement of the forearm, not the wrist! The key to 'proper' left wrist supination is actually dependent on 'correct' action of the left and right forearms in the follow through. Check this oft used vid of Luke Donald's swing between 13 and 14 secs to see the action.
And I'd also dispute that 'lag' doesn't have a significant effect on clubhead speed. Try swinging with locked elbows (zero lag) to see the difference.
Again, the key is finding the correct balance! Hogan, rather fanatically, spent thousands of hours getting 'his' swing 'perfect' (for him). We (working) amateurs can't afford that sort of time, so have to compromise! Btw. Moe Norman (the only other golfer who Tiger believes 'owned his swing') also spent thousands of hours getting his swing 'perfect for him' but they don't lokk anywhere near similar!
