half handicap for a scratch golfer?

[patricks148]

Played in a comp last week that was half handicap,

all very straightforward until we got to the couple of guys in our roll up that are scratch and +2.

the scratch guys was convinced that he played from the same handicap and half of 0 is well 0. but surely it should be +.5?

plus 2 there were two schools of though, some guys thought he should be off +1 but i argued that you can't have more shots than you would normally off half so it should be +3.


so who is right?

 

[duncan mackie]

the scratch guys was convinced that he played from the same handicap and half of 0 is well 0. but surely it should be +.5?

plus 2 there were two schools of though, some guys thought he should be off +1 but i argued that you can't have more shots than you would normally off half so it should be +3.


so who is right?

they were; or put another way, you are wrong with both of your arguments.

 

[ger147]

Played in a comp last week that was half handicap,

all very straightforward until we got to the couple of guys in our roll up that are scratch and +2.

the scratch guys was convinced that he played from the same handicap and half of 0 is well 0. but surely it should be +.5?

plus 2 there were two schools of though, some guys thought he should be off +1 but i argued that you can't have more shots than you would normally off half so it should be +3.


so who is right?

I have no idea who's right but it would seem to make sense that if the players with normal handicaps only get half the normal number of shots back from the course then the + handicap players would have to give twice as many back to the course, so the +2 guy becomes +4.

That logic however doesn't stand when it comes to the scratch guy as 2 times zero is still 0 the same as half of zero is 0. So not sure you can come up with a mathematical way to solve that particualr issue.

Where's Rachel Riley when you need her?

 

[Foxholer]

Played in a comp last week that was half handicap,

all very straightforward until we got to the couple of guys in our roll up that are scratch and +2.

the scratch guys was convinced that he played from the same handicap and half of 0 is well 0. but surely it should be +.5?

plus 2 there were two schools of though, some guys thought he should be off +1 but i argued that you can't have more shots than you would normally off half so it should be +3.


so who is right?

As per the Congu manual...
+2 Guy should be play off +1; Scratch guy should play off Scratch still!

Pretty logical really. It's just that the baseline changes.

 

[patricks148]

they were; or put another way, you are wrong with both of your arguments.

can you explain why?

 

[duncan mackie]

I have no idea who's right but it would seem to make sense that if the players with normal handicaps only get half the normal number of shots back from the course then the + handicap players would have to give twice as many back to the course, so the +2 guy becomes +4.

your logic is flawed

the reason to run a competition with only a handicap allowance is to reduce the differential between the highest and lowest handicaps in the field rather than simply have everyone scoring lower.

against that paradigm it's very logical that all handicap adjustments will result in handicaps that tend towards 0

 

[duncan mackie]

can you explain why?

sorry - I was going to then got called away!

see post #6

 

[Foxholer]

can you explain why?

RTFM - Page 95 http://www.englandgolf.org/e-brochure/index.html

Scottish one will be the same in this regard.

 

[ger147]

your logic is flawed

the reason to run a competition with only a handicap allowance is to reduce the differential between the highest and lowest handicaps in the field rather than simply have everyone scoring lower.

against that paradigm it's very logical that all handicap adjustments will result in handicaps that tend towards 0

Apologies, looked at it as a mathematical problem as us mathematicians tend to do. But you're quite right, in its proper context my "logic" isn't very logical at all.

 

[patricks148]

sorry - I was going to then got called away!

see post #6

But the +2 handicap is increasing by half not so is at an advantage by playing half where all others over scratch loss shots.

 

[duncan mackie]

But the +2 handicap is increasing by half not so is at an advantage by playing half where all others over scratch loss shots.

he's supposed to get an advantage - that's the whole purpose of only giving a % of the handicap; to bring down the differential between the lowest and highest handicaps.

by your logic with a field of 6 handicappers and a +6 handicapper, if you went to 50% handicap you would have 3 and +9 - which have exactly the same differential of 12 shots......ie a meaningless adjustment.

 

[Val]

But the +2 handicap is increasing by half not so is at an advantage by playing half where all others over scratch loss shots.

As highlighted, the purpose of half handicaps is to bring handicaps nearer scratch, if you are better then scratch then good for you

 

[Region3]

But the +2 handicap is increasing by half not so is at an advantage by playing half where all others over scratch loss shots.

Makes up for the rest of the year when the poor bloke has to break par just to buffer

 

[patricks148]

he's supposed to get an advantage - that's the whole purpose of only giving a % of the handicap; to bring down the differential between the lowest and highest handicaps.

by your logic with a field of 6 handicappers and a +6 handicapper, if you went to 50% handicap you would have 3 and +9 - which have exactly the same differential of 12 shots......ie a meaningless adjustment.

never thought of it like that, suppose that makes sense.

what confused me was wealso have a 9 hole comp and thats also half, but as its only 9 holes +1 makes sense as its only half the course

 

[rosecott]

never thought of it like that, suppose that makes sense.

what confused me was wealso have a 9 hole comp and thats also half, but as its only 9 holes +1 makes sense as its only half the course

Just to confuse you even further. If it's a 9-hole comp you will only get half your handicap anyway, irrespective of what else is decided to do with handicaps for the comp.

 

[patricks148]

might explain why he didn't win then playing off +3

 

[CheltenhamHacker]

My only thought is that why would a high handicapper bother playing in these competitions? for a 2 handicapper to lose a shot, and the plus handicapper to even gain a shot, why bother paying an entrance fee for someone like a 20 handicapper, who will lose 10 shots!?

 

[patricks148]

My only thought is that why would a high handicapper bother playing in these competitions? for a 2 handicapper to lose a shot, and the plus handicapper to even gain a shot, why bother paying an entrance fee for someone like a 20 handicapper, who will lose 10 shots!?

Swings and roundabouts, we have another winter comp thats full handicap round a very short course with no rough played to winter greens that have holes as pig as paint tins and the top 3 were, 26, 24 and 21 handicaps

 

[CheltenhamHacker]

Swings and roundabouts, we have another winter comp thats full handicap round a very short course with no rough played to winter greens that have holes as pig as paint tins and the top 3 were, 26, 24 and 21 handicaps

I understand that, but at least the low handicapper has a bit of a fighting chance. Let's be fair in a half handicap comp, high handicappers have a 1 in a million shot. Waste of the entry fee!

 

[Ethan]

As per the Congu manual...
+2 Guy should be play off +1; Scratch guy should play off Scratch still!

Pretty logical really. It's just that the baseline changes.

It is logical but not for the reason that may be assumed. The intention is to create a progressive bias in favour of the lower handicap player to balance the greater tendency of higher handicaps to get net birdies and pars in 4 ball.

So mathematically, +3 is clearly not 3/4 of +4, but that is not the intention.

But it was intended for 4 ball matches, and 3/4 was the suggested correction factor. 1/2 handicap in singles sounds extreme and an overbalance.