Golf Monthly reviews - for real?

[Parsaregood]

Fitted clubs vs non fitted clubs are obviously going to perform better or at worst just as good regardless. I think it's been well documented the the COR of clubs has been limited for years and the only real improvements in distance come from being fitted for shaft, loft and setup of the club to optimise spin levels for your specific swing, so basically fitting has come on a lot the last few years allowing people to optimise their distance. Forgiveness over the last 10-12 years has improved I.e off centre strikes now don't get punished distance wise the same as they once did but I definitely feel we are starting to reach a point where I don't really see how they can become much more forgiving and more to the point do you really want them to be ? I certainly feel I could use pretty much any driver the last 5 years and not give up anything and I use the titleist 917 but in all honest it's just the same as the 915 just has better fitting options. It's a business and obviously the manufacturer is going to make claims, and if the pay money to a magazine or whatever to promote their product it's not really surprising they tend to go along with what the manufacturer claims. I think magazines etc should be more clear when reviewing products about who pays what and for what reason because to have a credible review they're should be a level of clarity so that people can get a better picture as a whole

 

[PhilTheFragger]

Guys if writing a long piece can we use the odd paragraph, makes it easier to read, especially if you get distracted and have to scan to catch up 👍

My feeling is that so much testing goes on that even the perceived “lesser” brands produce good products that in perfect testing conditions produce an improvement on last years model

The crux is how this translates out on the course with your average handicap golfer, it doesn’t matter what the pro’s use, they play a different game to us.

Probably fair to say that most of us won’t see dramatic improvements over the immediate previous model. But maybe if you go back to a model 3 years ago and compare, then you might notice an improvement.

Reviews in whatever format only form part of the process of buying a new club, I’d rate feel and confidence over a review, but the review may have made me want to try that particular club.

Nice reply from the GM boys too 👍

 

[Bunkermagnet]

I would just like reviews to encompass all brands when they say test drivers. It all very well reviewing clubs from the main advertising paying players, but seeing as many amateurs play clubs from the very small labels, or very old clubs it would be nice to see a better comparison.

I do take reviews with some pinches of salt though, accepting it’s just a snapshot of that day with that reviewer.

 

[drdel]

Afternoon all, I asked Neil and Joel as the guys who do the vast majority of our club testing to pen a response - and it's below

>>>>
Hi everyone, we have been interested to read the comments about our review content and it seems that there is a lack of trust in what we are saying. Obviously, this is very disappointing and so we wanted to respond with a few comments here to clarify our testing procedures.


Firstly, a word on how we do our testing. We hit everything on a launch monitor on the same day and we try to eliminate as many variables as possible, so we use the same premium golf ball, same shaft, same loft, face angle etc, etc. Once we have hit a good number of shots then we remove any truly awful ones – so we tend to delete ones that are mishit badly or miss the fairway (more than 30 yards off line on the launch monitor). We then take a look at the data to see if we can pull out any trends. We do not include strike locations for different shots because you should then also really talk about path, attack angle, clubhead speed etc. Doing this makes it very easy to get lost in the detail and then fail to see the overall trends. It may well be that the swings made with one club are better than with another – but we feel as if that is all part of the test. If you feel comfortable looking down at a club, it stands to reason that you will swing it better. Ultimately, and this is something we always say in our videos, we are only trying to give people an idea for what to expect and that people should test and then get fitted for what they want. At no stage are we telling people to go out and buy a certain club.


Secondly, it is true to say that all the major manufacturers support Golf Monthly commercially. One of the upshots of this is that we have been to see many of the top brand’s R&D departments ourselves. We will admit that seeing the investment the brands are making in this area and meeting the incredibly intelligent people who work there, does make it much harder to dismiss what they are saying out of hand as pure marketing, as some other reviewers seem to do. We met the CEO of TaylorMade, David Abeles, last week and he was adamant that his company would never produce a product that does not out-perform the previous generation. Given the investment Abeles is making, if their latest generation is not at least a little better than the last, you have to wonder what they are spending all that R&D budget on! The same is true of all the leading manufacturers. It is 100% wrong to say that manufacturers have reached a ceiling and cannot improve the performance of their clubs.


Finally, just to reiterate - we have relationships with all the key manufacturers, not just one or a select few. These companies advertise with us - buying ads in print, online or pre-roll on our videos. Whenever we publish sponsored content, we make that as clear as possible for the reader/viewer to see by using the following terms (varies depending on channel)…. GM PROMOTION / IN ASSOCIATION WITH / IN PARTNERSHIP WITH. On sponsored videos they’ll also carry sponsor logos/messages on the intro and outro screens. It is naïve to think that anyone reviewing clubs does not have relationships within the golf industry. Over the last 18 months we have responded to a Golf Monthly reader survey asking for clearer verdicts and so we have produced many more head-to-head reviews between brands, all of whom advertise with us, in which there is a winner and a loser.


We take our club reviewing extremely seriously. We fully understand how sensitive this content is (both with the audience and the brands) and so we try to do everything as professionally and honestly as possible whilst also staying true to the idea that this is human testing and so the results only offer a snapshot of performance. Ultimately it would not be in our interest to fabricate the results of a club test to carry favour with a brand as the response from the audience, as this thread shows, would do us more damage.

Thanks for that.

I wonder, rather than remove those 'hits' that were good or bad if the comparison shots should be based on those where the 'player' had managed similar swing e.g. hand speed, club head speed, hip rotation etc?

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Guys if writing a long piece can we use the odd paragraph, makes it easier to read, especially if you get distracted and have to scan to catch up 👍

My feeling is that so much testing goes on that even the perceived “lesser” brands produce good products that in perfect testing conditions produce an improvement on last years model

The crux is how this translates out on the course with your average handicap golfer, it doesn’t matter what the pro’s use, they play a different game to us.

Probably fair to say that most of us won’t see dramatic improvements over the immediate previous model. But maybe if you go back to a model 3 years ago and compare, then you might notice an improvement.

Reviews in whatever format only form part of the process of buying a new club, I’d rate feel and confidence over a review, but the review may have made me want to try that particular club.

Nice reply from the GM boys too 👍

GM and others do offer testing sessions to the handicap golfer though although I take your point and would suggest more mid-handicap reviewers (Rob Potter on youtube springs to mind) allowed to give an unbiased and honest opinion would resonate far more with other golfers and their data would be similar. However would the big manufacturers really be up for that, especially long term and of not why not?

 

[User20205]

GM and others do offer testing sessions to the handicap golfer though although I take your point and would suggest more mid-handicap reviewers (Rob Potter on youtube springs to mind) allowed to give an unbiased and honest opinion would resonate far more with other golfers and their data would be similar. However would the big manufacturers really be up for that, especially long term and of not why not?

Can’t see the point in mid handicap testing. What does it say about the club being tested, if the fella testing it can’t find the middle of the club face ?
I’d rather watch a skilled player then go & hit it myself

 

[Tashyboy]

Ave said this before and will continue saying it. Mansfield will freeze over before I buy another Taylor made product. 😳 Er,
Anyway, I bought a SLDR and it was £300 of Rammel. My grief is that you get fitted and a month later it is just not happening, I went back to fitter and was advised to book in for a fitting. Eh is £300 plus not enough for you.
I got rid of it and ended up with a Ping G30 ex demo. It is a wand, not a massive wand in a sense of distance. But a wand non the less.
I went to Ping Gainsboro for a fitting for irons and just clicked with the fitter. He went through my irons and woods and it was a fantastic experience we compared two shafts for the driver and one of the shafts was 10 yds further but the dispertion was on a sixpence. It was a eureka moment for the village idiot.
I have no doubt that with technology, drivers are getting further but what is the point of another 8 yd if you are spraying it everywhere. Personally I would sooner read reviews from the sloggers and amateur players like me than Rory et al, or pros.

PS, hope ave done you proud on the paragraphs Phil 👍😁

 

[Tashyboy]

Can’t see the point in mid handicap testing. What does it say about the club being tested, if the fella testing it can’t find the middle of the club face ?
I’d rather watch a skilled player then go & hit it myself

I get that rod, but a skilled fitter, not player will help you to bladder it further. 👍

 

[Imurg]

I get that rod, but a skilled fitter, not player will help you to blade it further. 👍

Fixed that for ya!!ne::rofl:

 

[User20205]

I get that rod, but a skilled fitter, not player will help you to bladder it further. 👍

No one buys just on reviews. You have a look at the review then go & get fitted. My point is that some fella off 14 with a dodgy back hitting it 190 yards isn’t going to get me excited about a product.

 

[Pin-seeker]

Can’t see the point in mid handicap testing. What does it say about the club being tested, if the fella testing it can’t find the middle of the club face ?
I’d rather watch a skilled player then go & hit it myself

It would show how forgiving the club being tested is.
As apposed to a skilled player finding the middle of the club face 9 out of 10,because most of us don’t do that.

 

[User20205]

It would show how forgiving the club being tested is.
As apposed to a skilled player finding the middle of the club face 9 out of 10,because most of us don’t do that.

It tells me nothing, except how some double digit fella is hitting it on any given day. From watching club tests I want to see someone finding near the middle backed up with data so I can narrow down what I want to go and test. I can work out forgiveness based on my own misses for myself. Watching reviews is just a gateway. Watching rob potter hit a series of necky cuts tells me nothing

 

[Pin-seeker]

It tells me nothing, except how some double digit fella is hitting it on any given day. From watching club tests I want to see someone finding near the middle backed up with data so I can narrow down what I want to go and test. I can work out forgiveness based on my own misses for myself. Watching reviews is just a gateway. Watching rob potter hit a series of necky cuts tells me nothing

But Rob Potters bantz is top draw 😒

 

[Pin-seeker]

Reviews are pretty much a waste of time imo.
None of the top manufacturers make bad clubs.
Personal preference.

 

[PhilTheFragger]

With any club, I’m not bothered about perfect strikes, if I hit it right, it’s going to go well.
it’s what happens with an imperfect strike that grabs my attention .
Depends on your level of course

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Ave said this before and will continue saying it. Mansfield will freeze over before I buy another Taylor made product. 😳 Er,
Anyway, I bought a SLDR and it was £300 of Rammel. My grief is that you get fitted and a month later it is just not happening, I went back to fitter and was advised to book in for a fitting. Eh is £300 plus not enough for you.
I got rid of it and ended up with a Ping G30 ex demo. It is a wand, not a massive wand in a sense of distance. But a wand non the less.
I went to Ping Gainsboro for a fitting for irons and just clicked with the fitter. He went through my irons and woods and it was a fantastic experience we compared two shafts for the driver and one of the shafts was 10 yds further but the dispertion was on a sixpence. It was a eureka moment for the village idiot.
I have no doubt that with technology, drivers are getting further but what is the point of another 8 yd if you are spraying it everywhere. Personally I would sooner read reviews from the sloggers and amateur players like me than Rory et al, or pros.

PS, hope ave done you proud on the paragraphs Phil 👍😁

Dismissing a whole brand based on one driver which was hard to hit for an amateur and had next to no forgiveness outside the sweet spot seems a bit extreme - and it’s not the club that’s “rammel”

And what will a blog from a “slogger” like us show ? It won’t tell you the ability you can get from the driver , you need someone who can consistently hit the ball from the main part of the driver to show you what you can get from it - same with irons etc.

I have just gone through a full bag upgrade and I spent ages going through reviews of Drivers first of all , then from those reviews did a bit of quick testing at an AG range and then from that went for a fitting with the two main drivers I liked - and guess what it was the same two drivers that all the reviews where saying are the top two drivers of the year - a mid HC slogger wouldn’t have been able to tell me that

And the same with the irons - even more reviews I looked at and especially Neils reviews because I know he can hit a very good ball and low and behold he was spot on with his thinking

No one should ever buy a club from a review - they for me are their to help me look at other options

 

[User 99]

See GM have done a vid review of the M3 and a £50 slazenger driver, thought the chap was going to have an orgasm every time he spoke about the TM driver, coincidence ??

 

[HomerJSimpson]

With any club, I’m not bothered about perfect strikes, if I hit it right, it’s going to go well.
it’s what happens with an imperfect strike that grabs my attention .
Depends on your level of course

Which was my original point. Of course the tester would have to be engaging too which is why I enjoy Rob Potter's offerings. I would prefer to see a comparative test to get an idea of spin rates, distances etc especially on the bad hits. It'll give me far more information on how the club would likely perform in my own hands. Granted, the better you are, the more the pro videos become relevant. Videos are only a visual guidance and I think most on here would agree nothing would beat trying before you buy as the best way forward

 

[Pin-seeker]

you need someone who can consistently hit the ball from the main part of the driver to show you what you can get from it - same with irons etc.

We can just watch Rory or DJ to show us what the club is capable of👍🏻

Don’t be expecting any 380yrd drives tho Phillip 😏

 

[brendy]

See GM have done a vid review of the M3 and a £50 slazenger driver, thought the chap was going to have an orgasm every time he spoke about the TM driver, coincidence ??

Very close performance wise to be honest, but that noise from the Slazenger was awful, reminded me of king cobra drivers from years ago, about as refined as tea on a saucer.