Golf - Learning Something New - Ups and Downs

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

And so a couple of lessons into learning a completely new swing (having had to abandon my old faithful of 35yrs standing) I took my new swing onto the course at the weekend.

Saturday: Roll-up - started well and shot 77 (5 over inc a double). 41pts and won the roll-up. Best score in years.
Sunday - Strokeplay Comp - started poorly, got it together, then fell apart and shot 97. Worst score in years.

What was the difference? I guess I 'got' my new swing on Saturday, and on Sunday I didn't. Also on Saturday my chipping and putting were deadly - up and down in 2 for par eleven times hides quite a lot of mistakes.

Anyway - I guess have to accept the disappointments of the downside of the real difficulties of learning a new swing as much as celebrating the upsides of it working.

Two years I was told it would take me to get fully comfortable with my new swing. And in truth I can feel why it might take that long as I have a lot of muscle memory to conquer.

If indeed there is such a thing as muscle memory or is technique all in the head.

 

[Oddsocks]

I think a good deal is down to a pre shot routine that replicates the feel of the new swing, and also confidence in it.

A prime example is 2 weeks ago I took some swing changes to the course, not trusting the new swing I lost 5 balls left in deep clay but still shot 32 points. The other night up the range was a total car crash, head just wasn't trusting....

 

[JustOne]

I guess I 'got' my new swing on Saturday,

But you still needed 11 up-and-downs?

 

[FairwayDodger]

I feel your pain. My grip and swing change was made over the winter and has brought some real highs and lows.

It DOES improve the more you stick at it but, even now, my biggest problem is standing on the first tee and wondering whether I've (as you say) "got" it that day or not.

I also felt that my short game went backwards - partly due to spending more time on the full swing but also because those changes left me feeling a bit awkward over the more delicate shots.

 

[Crawfy]

Can't confirm on muscle memory etc, but can confirm on having to accept some poor shots as the new swing beds in.
Via lessons, I changed my swing this year, with the aim to improve consistency of strike. The challenge is not to revert to "old" when faced with a tough shot or in a comp and accept that shots/scores will dip initially. My scores and therefore my confidence in my new swing have improved steadily.
Not 100%, but a winter grinding it on the range should do the trick and it will all be second nature for next season.

Keep the faith squire

 

[walliams8]

Going through a similar phase of drastic swing changes . When it's good , it's really good . Still having the odd bad swing of a big pull which occasionally puts me in the crap..... Of course then next time you don't trust the swing and fly it out miles right . I've gotta learn to trust my swing and it sounds like you do aswell !

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

But you still needed 11 up-and-downs?

I 'got' it to the extent that it was functioning reasonably well and had eliminated the worst excesses of 'what was'. Some of the up and downs were excellent - some were chip and putts (we have small greens ) My point about the 'up-and-downs' was actually the same as yours - that I shouldn't be kidding myself that I've got a new swing that can have me knocking it round in mid single figures,

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

I feel your pain. My grip and swing change was made over the winter and has brought some real highs and lows.

It DOES improve the more you stick at it but, even now, my biggest problem is standing on the first tee and wondering whether I've (as you say) "got" it that day or not.

I also felt that my short game went backwards - partly due to spending more time on the full swing but also because those changes left me feeling a bit awkward over the more delicate shots.

My Sunday round started poor - but after first two holes got it together played par golf for next 5 until the 8th. Stuck 2nd shot in a greenside bunker and hadn't a clue what to do as I hadn't done any practice on bunker play with my new swing. I took 4 to get out and ran up an 8. Then on 9th was unlucky with lie of drive and two poor shots followed and end up with a 7. So 7 shots gone in two holes. Then couldn't get it to focus on what I had to do and 'relapsed' with the messy consequences.

My short game was the strongest part of my game - but I've had to ditch all my thoughts on how I played touch shots. Simple stuff I'm OK with - anything requiring much thought...but I can get it to work as Saturday showed - but most were of the simple sort.

 

[Spear-Chucker]

Interesting you've decided to take this step and shows a particular dedication to the game - good for you.

There's no such thing as muscle memory (bit of a mental get out, really) so I think you only have to learn the technique and then remember how to apply it when out on the course in the heat of battle. As you've a good history and knowledge of playing the game it's probably only a little practice and time - heaven forbid I say 'reps'

How confident are you feeling about the changes?

Changing my own game a little by playing many more draw shots as my ability to fade the ball consistently has diminished a bit. Downside of a home-made swing evolving I guess. Learning how to play holes differently is proving interesting to say the least but my scores haven't changed a great deal so far. Think there's some potential for improvement in there however..

 

[HomerJSimpson]

And so a couple of lessons into learning a completely new swing (having had to abandon my old faithful of 35yrs standing) I took my new swing onto the course at the weekend.

Saturday: Roll-up - started well and shot 77 (5 over inc a double). 41pts and won the roll-up. Best score in years.
Sunday - Strokeplay Comp - started poorly, got it together, then fell apart and shot 97. Worst score in years.

What was the difference? I guess I 'got' my new swing on Saturday, and on Sunday I didn't. Also on Saturday my chipping and putting were deadly - up and down in 2 for par eleven times hides quite a lot of mistakes.

Anyway - I guess have to accept the disappointments of the downside of the real difficulties of learning a new swing as much as celebrating the upsides of it working.

Two years I was told it would take me to get fully comfortable with my new swing. And in truth I can feel why it might take that long as I have a lot of muscle memory to conquer.

If indeed there is such a thing as muscle memory or is technique all in the head.

Out of interest why are you making the changes after so long. It sounds rather reminiscent of what I've been doing for the last two-three years. I'm simply trying to find something with fewer moving parts and more reliable to get me towards single figures. Not sure I believe in muscle memory for the golf swing. I think of it as technique retention, which you clearly had on Saturday and not Sunday. This for me is where my range work comes in so the technique becomes ingrained and you stand there and trust it and just do it

 

[duncan mackie]

Wish you good fortune SILH

Muscle memory is a poor term - however there is a recognised memory maping process that enables us to map complex physical actions to simple mental instructions.

As already suggested, concious triggers are usual - these are unconnected to a full blown pre shot routines though.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Out of interest why are you making the changes after so long. It sounds rather reminiscent of what I've been doing for the last two-three years. I'm simply trying to find something with fewer moving parts and more reliable to get me towards single figures. Not sure I believe in muscle memory for the golf swing. I think of it as technique retention, which you clearly had on Saturday and not Sunday. This for me is where my range work comes in so the technique becomes ingrained and you stand there and trust it and just do it

I've had to change as the swing I taught myself and grooved over a period of about 25yrs years - and that was pretty good with it getting me down to 6hcap - contained a load of flaws. I could sense these flaws but as I was playing as well as I could be bothered I decided that as it wasn't broke I wouldn't fix it.

But then I had 8 years out of the game (playing only 2-3 times a year) - and when I started up regularly I found that my swing had slipped out of the groove. Probably not a lot - but enough to mean that the flaws in the swing started to result in problems - and I couldn;t get it back into that groove. And then about 18mnths - two years ago when I couldn't stop sh**king the ball - like almost every shot. I had a lesson and I learned a 'fix' that stopped that problem and so I tried to adapt my old swing to include the fix. But as the last 18months to end June proved - that wasn't going to work - the fix and my old swing were completely incompatible. As soon as I relaxed and stopped thinking 'fix' and swung 'naturally - I sh**ked' it - literally.

And so the only way was accepting that I couldn't fix this myself and that I was going to have to start again pretty much from the basics and have lessons. I've only had a couple of lessons including the one that 'fixed' my sh**king. In the last 3 weeks or so ago I was shown what my 'take-away' should be - and I realised I'd not really been doing even that simple first move correctly. And that's what I am working on - the backswing. And I had a short lesson on on arm, hands and wrist at top of my backswing. And that's what I'm trying to get used to. It feels completely alien to me. But I can already feel that it has 'fixed' the things I knew were wrong in my old swing even when it was grooved.

And so there is no way back for me. I just have to learn this new swing - that's all there is to it. The 77 gave me a great boost. The 97 brought me back down to earth again. You can't build Rome in a day but I am fortunate that I've got the basic golfing skills hand-to-eye - all I need to do is to learn the new technique and get my body and mind to forget the old.

 

[the_coach]

"there are no born golfers. some have more natural ability than others, but they've all been made." ... Hogan

the reasons why 'changes' can be found to be so problematic is the old 'swing motion patterns' have been learned over time by the conscious mind through habit/repetition they then pass into the non-conscious the bit of the brain that 'sits' in the 'dark' responsible for automatic processes stuff like breathing, walking, moving a spoon to mouth, talking, driving etc.

the new movements/motions, the motor program skills have to again be developed through a conscious learned process, through repetition that then become habit & pass through to the non-conscious brain & become part of the 'new' automatic movements - so the 'in the zone' quotes from folks who've played real good yet not really conscious as to why.

good thing is 'changes' can be speeded up some through better & deliberate practice by quantifying the new learned motion through good monitoring.

obviously one way is with the teacher.

but there are a bunch of ways that can speed up the process some, that folks can do on their own, but it's gotta be with discipline, rigor

- by doing mirror work
- recording for your own checks parts of your practice sessions on cell phone
- always using alignment sticks etc
- having like Ben Hogan a practice book to write down both what's being worked on, how & in what shape the last practice session ended both as a record of progress plus give a heads up on exactly where to start the next session from.

- also a little more leftfield is the use of mental imagined practice, through visualization. just sitting & vividly 'seeing' both the new motion & sensing it as well as 'seeing' shots & play out one the course, when all the results are good ones & keeping score, not as easy to do & make it 'real' as it will need to be to work, as you need stillness & quiet & the will to carry it out good.
but the good thing about the 'automatic golfer' inside the non-conscious mind, is, if done real well the 'ag' cannot differentiate between 'real' data of shots actually made with the conscious mind or 'imagined' swing motion feels or shot or hole or complete game results.
as that 'awareness' the 'ag' uses sits in the area between the conscious & non conscious mind where information is passed one to the other as an automatic process.

the reason it can work if done good is the 'automatic golfer' in the non conscious mind cannot tell the difference between any 'sensory' information thats actually real (physical shots made in the past) from any 'sensory' information that's been imagined (if the imagination is done diligently)

often times folks in the 'west' find this a good ways difficult to take on board in a serious way (unless they're progressed pretty far with a good shifu or sensei in any serious martial arts learning) whereas it's more readily accepted in the far east as nothing much out of the ordinary.
any folks still interested in the 'ag's awareness' - 'google' Major James Nesmeth who still is possibly the most notable achiever through it's use.

the enemy of swing improvement changes is most often times just attempting those changes through feel while hitting balls with the conscious mind but without any real ways of monitoring movements, sure you would see what the ball does but not necessarily fully understand what happened with the motion if there's no reference physical points (sticks/water bottles/headcovers/mirrors/video etc)

so maybes easy to repeat for that short spell with some rhythm going ball after ball but often times real difficult to produce when needed in another further practice session or when out on the course because the understanding of how & why isn't really there - under these practice conditions of change - feel is very rarely 'real' for too long, & the 'old' motor programs kick back in.

you have to start to change swing motion by doing a good deal of both position work & slow motion drills, & then using no more really than 70% swing speed to strike a ball.

Hogan himself said ".....whenever I'm working on something I always do it in slow motion, that way I can monitor what I'm doing."

better too if folks alternate the 'block practice swing motion work' with 'random game practice' to mimic the pressure out on the course.
small bunches of balls. say 5 sets of 5 balls with an 8i to 'whatever the real average carry' to target with the aim to put all 5 within a 20' radius.
then 5 sets of 5 balls with a pw to the average carry distance all to be inside a 10' radius.
keep a score record & try to beat score.
when you can get all 5 sets of 5 balls with an 8i inside 20' set a new goal to 15' & repeat similarly refining harder goals with every club.
as you can make up these 'game practice pressure drills' for all clubs, say with driver 3 sets 3 balls to be in a target 'box' of 40' wide at say 250 out -insert a relevant average distance- at 70% swing effort

you can then hone up the 'game practice pressure' by working to these kind of proficiency goals but through the bag randomly, no 2 balls hit with the same club always a different target goal within a defined proficiency range & make the targets both left, center, right of the practice area so you have to align different ways each time, use a psr.

 

[JustOne]

I 'got' it to the extent that it was functioning reasonably well and had eliminated the worst excesses of 'what was'. Some of the up and downs were excellent - some were chip and putts (we have small greens ) My point about the 'up-and-downs' was actually the same as yours - that I shouldn't be kidding myself that I've got a new swing that can have me knocking it round in mid single figures,

I would say that a decent measure of whether or not your swing is getting better is how many greens in regulation you hit

Then you need to worry about how all those extra greens affect your putting stats

As a measure of GIR prowess a 6 h/cap golfer should be hitting approx 6 greens in regulation :thup: