Golf decreasing or increasing?

[Laka]

As i read in golf magazines and articles in Sweden- Golf is decreasing and its the younger generation that choose other activitites. There are no waiting lists longer to become a member in golfclubs. ten years ago you had problem to become a meber and had to wait several years to become a member..many clubs has difficulties with economy and goes banckrupcy and some manage to reconstruct and start again.

 

[Digging a hole for myself]

I'd say it was stable but changing. It's certainly not increasing so far as I can see. More emphasis on pay as you play courses and flexible memberships is good news, and clubs that follow that trend will do well. Those that stick with high membership and joining fees and offer limited categories of membership will suffer.

One thing that has surprised me (as a relative newcomer to golf) is the extremely limited way in which it is played in corporate environments. I work for a top FTSE pharma company, and there isn't even a UK golf society, despite having 100,000 employees! There's one in Poland, but that's all I've found. It was similar in my last company, where there was a society, but very small compared to the size of the company.

Also gone is the idea that lawyers meet their clients on the golf course. Certainly all the (private practice) lawyers that I deal with (high end city firms) are more likely to take you for dinner or shooting pheasants than for a round of golf. I'm quite glad too.

 

[Deleted member 18588]

The most recent surveys suggest that there has been no real growth in participation levels for over 15 years.This would seem to suggest that any difficulties the game faces are more deeply rooted, historically, than the current economic climate.

Too much supply chasing too little demand in many areas as a result of far too many inferior courses being built in early 90's as a result of awildly optimistic interpretation being put on a report produced around that time.

 

[shivas irons]

Definitely decreasing, just look at the clubs closing, the pro shops closing, ridiculously cheap green fee's even on championship golf courses.Any talk of golf increasing is bull put out by the industry to "get things going again".

 

[Pin-seeker]

It's hardly surprising golf is on the decrease. Imagine been new to the game & going to play your first full round. You've got members looking at you as if you've killed their cat just because you're changing shoes in the car park. Then you've got some numpty telling you to tuck your shirt in.
Why wouldn't you return

 

[DCB]

Interesting thread with some good points being made. I think golf club membership has suffered due to financial constraints over the past 5-6 years. However, I'd say that pay & play has benefited, certainly in my area, with the local Muni courses seeing a far greater number of golfers using them rather than paying out on a club membership and not getting enough value for money. With average membership in the area £600-800 then a 7 day season ticket at the local Muni's is a much better option for some golfers at £398.

 

[19thagain]

The above replies will have Mr Trump concerned over the long term viability of his golfing complex in Aberdeen.

You would think he would study trends before spending his hard earned money.

Maybe the days of clubs are numbered but pay and play courses is the financial way forward.

A system to accommodate handicaps, in the no club future, will no doubt be devised with a central body handling all society type playing cards.(there will be no clubs so no match secretary's or inter club matches etc)

Where will all the retired ex pats dish out their mountains of knowledge if they no longer have the golf club rank and file to keep in order?

Where will the bolt hole be for husbands, like me, to enjoy good company and a pink gin? No, not in the pub - they are closing down too!

 

[shivas irons]

It's hardly surprising golf is on the decrease. Imagine been new to the game & going to play your first full round. You've got members looking at you as if you've killed their cat just because you're changing shoes in the car park. Then you've got some numpty telling you to tuck your shirt in.
Why wouldn't you return

So its just a little bit too much for golfs next generation you put their shoes on in the changing rooms and tuck their shirt in? Good grief

 

[Pin-seeker]

So its just a little bit too much for golfs next generation you put their shoes on in the changing rooms and tuck their shirt in? Good grief

The worlds changed mate. I'm not saying it's right but golf may need to change to attract future young members.

 

[Deleted member 18588]

The above replies will have Mr Trump concerned over the long term viability of his golfing complex in Aberdeen.

You would think he would study trends before spending his hard earned money.

Maybe the days of clubs are numbered but pay and play courses is the financial way forward.

A system to accommodate handicaps, in the no club future, will no doubt be devised with a central body handling all society type playing cards.(there will be no clubs so no match secretary's or inter club matches etc)

Where will all the retired ex pats dish out their mountains of knowledge if they no longer have the golf club rank and file to keep in order?

Where will the bolt hole be for husbands, like me, to enjoy good company and a pink gin? No, not in the pub - they are closing down too!

Can you then explain why, in this area at least, it is "pay & play" operations that are closing down and not members' clubs.

The truth is that the proprietors of "p&p" courses require a return on capital that golf, at the lower end of the market, will never provide.
Higher end resort operations should, with prudent management, survive but cheap & cheerful will struggle due to the problems of matching costs (which in many ways are as high as their top end neighbours) with a much lower income.
The only way to overcome this is with massively increased footfall and the demand is just not there.

 

[London mike 61]

I have only been playing golf for about 6years so here are some of the things that put me off playing before in no particular order.

The cost of the clubs ( even a beginners set) I thought were very expensive.
The cost of individual lessons were the cost of a round of golf at a moderate course
the golfing attire had to be of a certain standard in order to be accepted onto the course in the first place and this meant paying for a special pair of shoes that you my or may not wear again if the game did not suit you.
then there is the buying A trolley, glove, balls tees etc all of which you ( especially me) had to buy without much advice from fellow golfers who don't really want to play with a newbie because of slow play and being thought of as an amateur by other golfers while playing with a newbie.
then when I was brave enough to join in a work society outing, I had to face the look of contempt that some members give society groups when they have the audacity to want to play on their course even though you treat the course and people with respect.
my conclusion is that golf is not a very welcoming or tolorant sport for people wishing to take it up .
So I try to understand that if I see inexperienced golfers .

 

[alex57834]

I thought golf in Asia is increasing quite rapidly or am I wrong?

 

[delc]

I thought golf in Asia is increasing quite rapidly or am I wrong?

Possibly from a very low starting base. Golf in China would have been almost unheard of in Chairman Mao's day. Golf in the UK probably decreasing due to a decline in most people's disposable income (other than bankers and MP's)!

 

[SGC001]

I thought golf in Asia is increasing quite rapidly or am I wrong?

I gather it's doing well there in places like Thailand, the Philippines, and China. They would be classed as less mature markets as some in Europe would be too, compared to he UK which would be a mature market.

In China I've heard golf is a very aspirational sport and a they are generating a lot of new millionaires every year and it seems to be booming.

They are very different markets at very different stages of development.

Over here it would be interesting to see and reports will be around (hopefully better thought out than the report suggesting many more courses were needed in the 90's). That report as someone mentioned earlier suggesting new courses were needed was published leading to an increase in supply, often by farmers on land that is less than suitable for golf (I've heard it said if you want to know what do on a golf course, ask a farmer and do the opposite because you are wanting different kinds of grasses and less fertile conditions basically - very basically and previously farmed land would likely have very high levels of nutrients making conditions ideal for grasses we don't want).

Golf has changed with the extra courses changing the market and competition, it's a leisure activity so will be more squeezed in times of economic difficulty and it's not just competing with other facilities and sports, but TV as well amongst other things.

Last year with the weather was bad, golfing rounds were down, they'll be up on that this year but not sure of the long term trend, it's been pretty steady since the 90's the last 5 years may make interesting reading, particularly rounds played against memberships as a lot more types of memberships are available.

A lot of muni's seemed to be used as cash cows by local authorities and I'm not sure how much was reinvested so in more difficult times they may well be struggling. The image of golf as old and stuff and elitist probably goes against the grain with some people too so they may be less willing to subsidise it.

It's a lot more open now in some ways with accessibility, price of gear and 2nd hand gear make it quite cheap to start, though full memberships are not at that cheap a level.

I know of a few places closing, and expect others will.

 

[MegaSteve]

It's hardly surprising golf is on the decrease. Imagine been new to the game & going to play your first full round. You've got members looking at you as if you've killed their cat just because you're changing shoes in the car park. Then you've got some numpty telling you to tuck your shirt in.
Why wouldn't you return

So how do you explain the lack of players at muni's and p&p courses where such 'stuffiness' doesn't really exist...

 

[chrisg]

there's no lack of golfers at the muni's and the more visitor friendly (cheaper and more accessible) courses round here - they get packed!!!
You have to visit the more exclusive members clubs to get a nice quiet round... but access is then limited and (usually) more costly

 

[MegaSteve]

there's no lack of golfers at the muni's and the more visitor friendly (cheaper and more accessible) courses round here - they get packed!!!

Certainly no longer the case in these 'ere parts... Even those offering special deals on green fee's etc...

 

[Hobbit]

It's hardly surprising golf is on the decrease. Imagine been new to the game & going to play your first full round. You've got members looking at you as if you've killed their cat just because you're changing shoes in the car park. Then you've got some numpty telling you to tuck your shirt in.
Why wouldn't you return

It might well be on the decrease but your ideas as to why are just laughable. The examples you describe have been going on for as long as I can remember, and there was worse 40+yrs ago... you've right made me chuckle

Merry Christmas!!

 

[Old Skier]

I received the latest survey summary from England Golf last week and much to mine and many others in our county they have suggested from their survey results that it's on the increase. Not the felling in the SW amongst the clubs.

The survey was only carried out using around 50 odd clubs and I would love to see who the clubs were.

 

[chrisg]

Certainly no longer the case in these 'ere parts... Even those offering special deals on green fee's etc...

We've had to play different courses the last two weekends because we couldn't get an early-ish time on our usual course. Although I guess in winter everything gets compressed due to shorter daylight hours and no midweek evenings so that may be a reason too.

Then yesterday we played a members course that only allows visitors at certain midweek timeslots and it was completley empty (Noah did sail past in his ark on the 14th though)

You pays your money and takes your choice I guess!