Golf Club Professional - Luxury or Surplus to Requirement.

[Grant85]

Couple of Clubs in the North East have recently given their Pro’s notice as they look to reduce costs.

Leading on from another thread, does a Golf Club need a Professional? Are there hidden benefits which are difficult to put a cost to?

Personally I find it a bit short sighted and possibly see the Professional as an easy target for saving money, if anything some Clubs are guilty of not utilising their Professional enough.

I think it depends what a Professional does. Back in the day, a Golf Pro could make a decent living running a shop - but I think that's not really possible now. But potential to make a bit of cash on drinks, snacks, clothing and will always sell some equipment, but margins will be wafer thin.

I'd want the Pro do be focused on teaching. Doing lessons, group clinics, kids sessions etc.

If a Pro was teaching at least 20 hours a week, doing a bit of retail and doing a couple of shifts in the shop then they could make an ok living. But it's labour intensive and I'm not sure too many guys with families would really choose it as a lifestyle.

 

[williamalex1]

I think it depends what a Professional does. Back in the day, a Golf Pro could make a decent living running a shop - but I think that's not really possible now. But potential to make a bit of cash on drinks, snacks, clothing and will always sell some equipment, but margins will be wafer thin.

I'd want the Pro do be focused on teaching. Doing lessons, group clinics, kids sessions etc.

If a Pro was teaching at least 20 hours a week, doing a bit of retail and doing a couple of shifts in the shop then they could make an ok living. But it's labour intensive and I'm not sure too many guys with families would really choose it as a lifestyle.

Most pros receive a retainer from clubs, I seem to remember it was around ten grand 30 odd year ago.

 

[rudebhoy]

Our pro has been responsible for a large number of new members at our place through the Get Into Golf scheme he runs. I don't know the exact figures, but I'd guess 40-50 per annum paying £700, so there's the best part of 30k there in subs alone.

 

[GB72]

I think that the answer depends on the pro and the member. I suspect a majority at my club like having a pro, have lessons, use the shop etc. From a personal standpoint, I do not use the pro for lessons, I do not buy gear there (do not stock the brands I like) and pretty much only use the pro shop to pay comp fees and buy a coffee from the machine and sometimes a drink if I have forgot to put one in my bag. I could easily live without a pro but I appreciate that she does quite a bit around the club and so can see the benefits for others.

 

[MendieGK]

Most pros receive a retainer from clubs, I seem to remember it was around ten grand 30 odd year ago.

Do you know what retainer is for?

For that amount of cash, they have to pay for any additional staff and stock the shop. Pros make very little if any money from that retainer

 

[jim8flog]

The head pro at our club retires next year and our directors have decided to take the shop in house and just pay the remaining staff as employees (which include 3 pros).

It was interesting last night when discussing this with another member. He said he had heard of a club where the members had taken the shop in house and they demanded that they (as part owners of the club) should be able to buy everything at cost price plus VAT.

 

[jim8flog]

Do you know what retainer is for?

For that amount of cash, they have to pay for any additional staff and stock the shop. Pros make very little if any money from that retainer

Our pro has a retainer of £26k a year and all competition winnings are paid in to the members accounts in the pro shop, twos comps for club comps are run by the proshop.

He has the responsibility of taking green fees for both courses.
Running the driving range.
Some sundry duties like keeping the sign in sheets for competitions and the book for supplementary scores
He employs all the shop staff (currently 6-8) shop is open 7.30 to 7.30 summer 7 days a week
He owns and runs a fleet of buggies.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Most pros receive a retainer from clubs, I seem to remember it was around ten grand 30 odd year ago.

Some are only on that now!

 

[drdel]

I suspect very few medium to small clubs can make a viable business case for a full-time professional. As with much of the retail sector on-line retailers are hard competition for the pro-shop so a pro won't get by on pro-shop sales.

Perhaps a few 'local' clubs could organise a rota system and fund a professional on a sharing basis.

 

[williamalex1]

Do you know what retainer is for?

For that amount of cash, they have to pay for any additional staff and stock the shop. Pros make very little if any money from that retainer

I didn't say they made money out of it, but looks like its up to around 26 grand [ see post 27 ]. A good start for a normal shop keeper, probably a rent free shop, no electricity bills rent or council charges.
Fortunately we have volunteers/members that run all our comps for nothing except the odd pint or 2, the bar staff and office sell all the golf essentials even Mars bars.
For us 26 grand would be lot to claw back from members fees.

BobMac will know the details.

 

[GG26]

I don’t know what the arrangements are, but I believe that we are a fortunate club in that we have three pros.

The pro appointed by the club takes the kids lessons and brought over many new lady members when he moved to us three years ago. I don’t see him around that often and I understand that he has branched out into fitness training (although I could be wrong on that).

The assistant pro was for many years the pro at another local club and he runs the shop. I prefer taking lessons from him and get more from them.

The other newly qualified PGA pro coach has played on the Ladies European Tour and is a former junior member of the club. She brings a different skill set and is a great addition to the team.

All said, I believe that we are very fortunate and have had a decent increase in membership in the last year after many years of decline, which in no small part will be down to the pro team.

 

[Grant85]

Most pros receive a retainer from clubs, I seem to remember it was around ten grand 30 odd year ago.

Yes - I think that's still the case in the main, but will be contracted to 16 or 20 hours in the shop.

Our club has a Pro who runs the shop (and gets a retainer) but doesn't do any teaching and also runs a shop at another club.
We also have a teaching Pro, who is leaving, and I'm sure must also get a retainer. But I have a feeling it will be tricky to hire someone new solely as a teaching pro, without them being able to do any retail to top up their income.

I don't see how a teaching pro makes more than £30k by just doing lessons - unless you have floodlights or a teaching studio / trackman set up. So club drop him another £x a month or so to make it worthwhile.

 

[Jacko_G]

A teaching pro will not get a retainer and indeed will probably give at least 15%-20% of his income to the club for allowing him to use the facilities and have access to their membership.

 

[MendieGK]

Yes - I think that's still the case in the main, but will be contracted to 16 or 20 hours in the shop.

Our club has a Pro who runs the shop (and gets a retainer) but doesn't do any teaching and also runs a shop at another club.
We also have a teaching Pro, who is leaving, and I'm sure must also get a retainer. But I have a feeling it will be tricky to hire someone new solely as a teaching pro, without them being able to do any retail to top up their income.

I don't see how a teaching pro makes more than £30k by just doing lessons - unless you have floodlights or a teaching studio / trackman set up. So club drop him another £x a month or so to make it worthwhile.

This is why so many courses are building studios now. Expensive initial investment but should pay for itself within a couple of years if operated efficiently

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Yes - I think that's still the case in the main, but will be contracted to 16 or 20 hours in the shop.

Our club has a Pro who runs the shop (and gets a retainer) but doesn't do any teaching and also runs a shop at another club.
We also have a teaching Pro, who is leaving, and I'm sure must also get a retainer. But I have a feeling it will be tricky to hire someone new solely as a teaching pro, without them being able to do any retail to top up their income.

I don't see how a teaching pro makes more than £30k by just doing lessons - unless you have floodlights or a teaching studio / trackman set up. So club drop him another £x a month or so to make it worthwhile.

which we do - and it has had a massive impact on the earning capacity of our pros. And we also have covered bays on our range - though no floodlights - and I doubt we would ever be allowed to have any being in a rural location. Our teaching pros are busy solid throughout the year.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

This is why so many courses are building studios now. Expensive initial investment but should pay for itself within a couple of years if operated efficiently

I quoted 2 pro's in my area who are, seemingly, doing well. Both are at clubs where studios have been installed, one 18 months ago, the other in the last few months. All about keeping things going 12 months of the year, offering another string to the bow of the club.

I think you need a decent membership in the first place to justify this, you can't do a Field of Dreams I don't think.

 

[MendieGK]

I quoted 2 pro's in my area who are, seemingly, doing well. Both are at clubs where studios have been installed, one 18 months ago, the other in the last few months. All about keeping things going 12 months of the year, offering another string to the bow of the club.

I think you need a decent membership in the first place to justify this, you can't do a Field of Dreams I don't think.

Main thing is - you increase your coaching potential by roughly 20+ hours a week (assuming 4-8pm). So £50 an hour. Your earning potential (being the key word) is at least £50k a year

But as you said members need to buy into it

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Our newly appointed Head Pro (previous assistant pro) is the coach to one of UK's top up-and-coming girls - still just 16 she's competing at UK Am Ladies highest level - and representing England internationally - she's 2019 Surrey Ladies County and was T2 in the 2019 UK Ladies County Champion of Champions - and this is bringing recognition to our often overlooked club in amongst all the high profile Surrey/Hampshire/Berkshire clubs that surround us.

And as her coach he too is getting recognition - for him money is obviously important, but it's not everything. Of course not all Pros are lucky enough to have a star in the making under their wing - but there is always a first time for everything. So our Head Pro is proving his worth on that front also.

 

[Grant85]

which we do - and it has had a massive impact on the earning capacity of our pros. And we also have covered bays on our range - though no floodlights - and I doubt we would ever be allowed to have any being in a rural location. Our teaching pros are busy solid throughout the year.

Yeh - if I was in the teaching pro position I'd be looking at combination of saving and borrowing to invest in a teaching studio and then charging the club a few hundred a month retainer to have it as part of their offering. Whatever the deal was, it would be in a clubs interest to try and get some kind of facility up and running as a benefit to members and to give their pro more security and earning potential.

Then can comfortably do a lot more teaching / club fitting through bad weather and winter months.. and potentially rent space to another pro or club fitter, have nearest the pin / longest drive comps through the winter etc.

Impression I got from our pro was that he was generally busy throughout the season, but only for a few hours a week in winter and a lot of his being busy was lessons being carried over from bad weather. I think he'd have been struggling to do much more than 20 hours a week on average... possibly a lot less depending on what happens during winter. Averaging 35 hours a week teaching at £25 to £30 per hour starts to become a much more meaningful income and you can still work a few days off for family or other interests.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Yeh - if I was in the teaching pro position I'd be looking at combination of saving and borrowing to invest in a teaching studio and then charging the club a few hundred a month retainer to have it as part of their offering. Whatever the deal was, it would be in a clubs interest to try and get some kind of facility up and running as a benefit to members and to give their pro more security and earning potential.

Then can comfortably do a lot more teaching / club fitting through bad weather and winter months.. and potentially rent space to another pro or club fitter, have nearest the pin / longest drive comps through the winter etc.

Impression I got from our pro was that he was generally busy throughout the season, but only for a few hours a week in winter and a lot of his being busy was lessons being carried over from bad weather. I think he'd have been struggling to do much more than 20 hours a week on average... possibly a lot less depending on what happens during winter. Averaging 35 hours a week teaching at £25 to £30 per hour starts to become a much more meaningful income and you can still work a few days off for family or other interests.

So today - absolutely lashing it down - and I think he is pretty busy all day and into the early evening doing lessons in our studio. Put it this way - I have been pestering him for a freebie lesson or two for a few weeks and his teaching schedule always seems to be chocka ...