Golf Club Meetings

[GB72]

Went to my first ever one last night and that was an eye opener. So much venom let loose by some members and plenty of school yard bickering. OK it was a touchy subject (another reasonably large increase in subscriptions) but still it was not what I would call a civilised debate. Furthermore, the slow and outdated procedures to get a vote through were just mind numbing. There must be an easier system than this to get decisions made whilst having input from the club. It was a one issue meeting and it still went on for over 3 hours.

 

[Grant85]

That is standard in golf clubs up and down the land.

Problem is that people think decisions are made at meetings. But in reality decisions are made by the committee and the purpose of the meeting is to seek the members approval.

If people want the kind of input that they try and give at an AGM, they should join the committee and give up dozens of hours per month helping to support and run a golf club.

I made a decision the 1st one of these I went to that I would support the committee on all votes (even if I didn't agree) as I wasn't prepared / able to give up the kind of time these folk give up.

It is also completely unfair to stand up and criticise actions or decisions by volunteers in a reasonably public setting. Some people think nothing of it, but would never be prepared to serve and help the smooth running of the club.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Went to my first ever one last night and that was an eye opener. So much venom let loose by some members and plenty of school yard bickering. OK it was a touchy subject (another reasonably large increase in subscriptions) but still it was not what I would call a civilised debate. Furthermore, the slow and outdated procedures to get a vote through were just mind numbing. There must be an easier system than this to get decisions made whilst having input from the club. It was a one issue meeting and it still went on for over 3 hours.

Out of interest - from what to what?

At my members club our subs are determined by the Club Manager in consultation with the appropriate club officers and member's committees (its what we elect them to do) and we are advised of them well in advance - giving members plenty of time to have an EGM called if there was sufficient upset and numbers upset. But we don't have any consultation on the coming years subs as a matter of course.

 

[GB72]

Out of interest - from what to what?

At my members club our subs are determined by the Club Manager in consultation with the appropriate club officers and member's committees (its what we elect them to do) and we are advised of them well in advance - giving members plenty of time to have an EGM called if there was sufficient upset and numbers upset. But we don't have any consultation on the coming years subs as a matter of course.

The proposal was at 8%, one member put the accounts provided through an accountancy firm and put forward and amendment at 2% and it was settled at 5%. The arguments were just emotional blackmail, you vote in the 2% we will have to cancel the greenkeepers pay rises, we will have to put in tee booking and have more visitors, the aim of the rise is to get rid of a certain class of member, the catering does not deserve any more funding as the food is not great, it all came out.

 

[Jacko_G]

That is standard in golf clubs up and down the land.

Problem is that people think decisions are made at meetings. But in reality decisions are made by the committee and the purpose of the meeting is to seek the members approval.

If people want the kind of input that they try and give at an AGM, they should join the committee and give up dozens of hours per month helping to support and run a golf club.

I made a decision the 1st one of these I went to that I would support the committee on all votes (even if I didn't agree) as I wasn't prepared / able to give up the kind of time these folk give up.

It is also completely unfair to stand up and criticise actions or decisions by volunteers in a reasonably public setting. Some people think nothing of it, but would never be prepared to serve and help the smooth running of the club.

It's not unfair. If these people do not represent the true cross section of the club membership then the members have a right to voice their concerns.

To often Committee decisions are wide of the mark and taken without proper consultation and proper dissemination of factual information.

 

[patricks148]

stopped going to our AGM's the clique on the commettee do whats best for them, rather than the club or other members, tend to get a load of yes men to push things through , just pays my money now and try not to let it bother me... fyi its still does

 

[GB72]

stopped going to our AGM's the clique on the commettee do whats best for them, rather than the club or other members, tend to get a load of yes men to push things through , just pays my money now and try not to let it bother me... fyi its still does

To be fair I am similar. Went last night as the planned increase would have been close to my threshold for what I am willing to pay for the amount of golf I play.

 

[Grant85]

It's not unfair. If these people do not represent the true cross section of the club membership then the members have a right to voice their concerns.

To often Committee decisions are wide of the mark and taken without proper consultation and proper dissemination of factual information.

Like I said, if that's you view, get involved. Or at least be constructive and respectful with what you say (not saying you wouldn't be). This is often not the case at meetings where people just stand up for a rant every year on everything and anything.

And as I said, the time for consultation is not the AGM, that is the time to rubber stamp a proposal the committee have put to the membership. You either make representation to the committee prior to the AGM or join the committee to influence decisions. Sure people can and do state their views on things, but most clubs won't allow issues to be put to a vote that aren't already on the agenda.

Of course regardless of how well run a club is there will always be things done and decisions made that won't please everyone. T

 

[Wolf]

AGM all seem to go same way people bitch and moan, then vote for what they didnt want anyway.

Just got email notification that our subs are being put up by 6% for the last full 7 day membership. May not sound a lot but considering they are going to offer a 4 day membership which entitles people to play Mon, Wed, Fri & Sat for nearly £200 less the point of being a 7 day member becomes pointless considering most of our big comps are all on a Saturday anyway.

We haven't had any proposals of the changes nor an AGM to confirm them and we're a members club. Don't think I'll bother renewing as barely managed a game in months and going forward its not representing VFM. Nomadic golf here I come..

 

[Grant85]

AGM all seem to go same way people bitch and moan, then vote for what they didnt want anyway.

Just got email notification that our subs are being put up by 6% for the last full 7 day membership. May not sound a lot but considering they are going to offer a 4 day membership which entitles people to play Mon, Wed, Fri & Sat for nearly £200 less the point of being a 7 day member becomes pointless considering most of our big comps are all on a Saturday anyway.

We haven't had any proposals of the changes nor an AGM to confirm them and we're a members club. Don't think I'll bother renewing as barely managed a game in months and going forward its not representing VFM. Nomadic golf here I come..

That's a suicidal membership category to have.

Yes - might be appealing to members, but all it's going to mean is a course rammed on Friday afternoons and Saturdays and basically empty all day Sunday.

 

[Big_G]

We have an Open Forum annually a month or so before our AGM, sort of defuses any burning issues pre-AGM

Last year our Treasurer presented the preliminary year end accounts, informing us of a potential shortfall on budget of £20k........hardly a murmur in the room

We spent the next 45 minutes discussing members in the clubhouse with mud on their shoes!!!!

It just shows the mentality of golf clubs, and peoples priorities

 

[Robster59]

I was at the same one as Grant and there was a couple of "vested interests" having a good moan but in some instances it's basically because they're not having things their way.
As a member of a members club you're allowed to pass your opinions and its good members have the opportunity to do this but as with all AGM's you've probably only got about 10% (if you're lucky) of the voting membership attending.
I asked a few questions which I felt were relevant and Grant made a good suggestion but some of the others wanted to air their views. That's fine, it's their right, although one of my friends did labour his point for way too long.
Being involved in the club, as Chairman, Captain or Vice-Captain, member of the Board of Management or the committee is not easy as you aren't going to please everyone. You can only do the best you can and, generally, that what our club tries to do.

 

[Wolf]

That's a suicidal membership category to have.

Yes - might be appealing to members, but all it's going to mean is a course rammed on Friday afternoons and Saturdays and basically empty all day Sunday.

My sentiments exactly. It makes no logical sense to have it and will alienate 5 day members who pay more than 4 day members but can't play weekends.

Course will be rammed Saturdays and lose valuable trade Sundays.

 

[Grant85]

We have an Open Forum annually a month or so before our AGM, sort of defuses any burning issues pre-AGM

Last year our Treasurer presented the preliminary year end accounts, informing us of a potential shortfall on budget of £20k........hardly a murmur in the room

We spent the next 45 minutes discussing members in the clubhouse with mud on their shoes!!!!

It just shows the mentality of golf clubs, and peoples priorities

Exactly, and the type of decisions and balancing act a club has to manage.

It's bloody expensive to run a golf club these days. Anywhere from 6 to 20 staff - wages, sick pay, NI, pension contributions. Food hygiene certificates. Data protection licences. Computers, software, printers. Health and safety. Maintenance, plumbing, light bulbs, etc etc.

And that's before you've done anything to improve the course or clubhouse.

 

[Grant85]

I was at the same one as Grant and there was a couple of "vested interests" having a good moan but in some instances it's basically because they're not having things their way.
As a member of a members club you're allowed to pass your opinions and its good members have the opportunity to do this but as with all AGM's you've probably only got about 10% (if you're lucky) of the voting membership attending.
I asked a few questions which I felt were relevant and Grant made a good suggestion but some of the others wanted to air their views. That's fine, it's their right, although one of my friends did labour his point for way too long.
Being involved in the club, as Chairman, Captain or Vice-Captain, member of the Board of Management or the committee is not easy as you aren't going to please everyone. You can only do the best you can and, generally, that what our club tries to do.

The one at a previous club I was at was far more of a bloodbath every year.

One guy would take an absolute flying rant on a range of things. Nothing constructive to say and didn't even attempt to say it in a way that had a chance of changing anyone's views.

And then the main vote on the raising of fees 3% (or whatever)... dozens of people would vote against it. Even though they'd just sat through the financial report saying how tight things where.

 

[upsidedown]

Ah the good old meetings .

We strive hard throughout the year with Committee and Board meetings over many hours then come the AGM despite being asked before hand to send in your questions you always get the "moaners and it was better in my day brigade"

We're going up by 5% this year which takes us over the £1000 threshold and from the complaints already you'd think we'd asked them for blood !!

 

[rosecott]

AGM all seem to go same way people bitch and moan, then vote for what they didnt want anyway.

Just got email notification that our subs are being put up by 6% for the last full 7 day membership. May not sound a lot but considering they are going to offer a 4 day membership which entitles people to play Mon, Wed, Fri & Sat for nearly £200 less the point of being a 7 day member becomes pointless considering most of our big comps are all on a Saturday anyway.

We haven't had any proposals of the changes nor an AGM to confirm them and we're a members club. Don't think I'll bother renewing as barely managed a game in months and going forward its not representing VFM. Nomadic golf here I come..

I'd be interested to know how on-the-course presence will be policed with those differing memberships.

 

[Crow]

I'd be interested to know how on-the-course presence will be policed with those differing memberships.

7 day members will grass them up.

 

[GB72]

Ah the good old meetings .

We strive hard throughout the year with Committee and Board meetings over many hours then come the AGM despite being asked before hand to send in your questions you always get the "moaners and it was better in my day brigade"

We're going up by 5% this year which takes us over the £1000 threshold and from the complaints already you'd think we'd asked them for blood !!

This is roughly where we are. Just under £1000 and I have always said if membership hit £1000 then that is too much for how often I play

 

[Jacko_G]

This is roughly where we are. Just under £1000 and I have always said if membership hit £1000 then that is too much for how often I play

That is key. Knowing when you stop getting value for money.

I was £1350 this year but I get golf 365, I work shifts and get great use out of the course at the quieter times. I use the practice facilities and also use the showers if I'm going straight to work after.