Gender-Free Tees

FairwayDodger said:
Indeed, the course was a pale imitation of itself from the tees I used.
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My daughter agrees with Karen on WG and gets into strange conversations with the men over it.
I must admit I was surprised when she first mentioned it as I think it is a lovely course.
I caddied for her in the County Championships there a few years ago and saw it from her perspective.
Totally different challenges, more suited to the higher handicaps.
 
Foxholer said:
This 'travel well/poorly' is exactly what the Course Rating/Slope is meant to combat! Essentially, the Course Rating is the equivalent to the SSS - though to 1 decimal point - and is the average a Scratch player is expected to score. The Slope acknowledges that higher handicap players score progressively poorer on tougher courses on a fairly even 'slope'. So extra shots are allocated for courses that are deemed harder than a particular standard - Slope value 115. Every Tee is rated for both Scratch Rating and Slope, so the particular handicap you ply off on any course can be determined from your Index (which is not your handicap) against a table for the particular course and Tees! Supposedly, that eliminates the 'travels well' issue - though we all know that how we play on any day varies considerably, some players prefer certain types of course and those players who can adapt their games to conditions often score better than those that can't when playing away from their home courses!

The system still has some issues, but UK is the only part of the world that does not use most of the concepts - there are minor variations for Europe and for South Africa, but US, Aus, NZ and most other countries use it! So the plan for a universal system is almost certainly going to end up with the slope system!

And, I believe, it's Gender-Free!
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It's not gender free, the factor of multiplication for slope is different for men and women.

***EDIT*** It's the factor of division not multiplication.
 
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Doon frae Troon said:
My daughter agrees with Karen on WG and gets into strange conversations with the men over it.
I must admit I was surprised when she first mentioned it as I think it is a lovely course.
I caddied for her in the County Championships there a few years ago and saw it from her perspective.
Totally different challenges, more suited to the higher handicaps.
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It's just that too many of the forward tees have been lazily positioned at the start of the fairway, bypassing any hazard or challenge of the tee shot facing players from the other tees.

To be honest, you should pay less as a visitor if you're using those tees. It's rated as a top 100 course but isn't even close to that standard from those tees.
 
FairwayDodger said:
It's just that too many of the forward tees have been lazily positioned at the start of the fairway, bypassing any hazard or challenge of the tee shot facing players from the other tees.

To be honest, you should pay less as a visitor if you're using those tees. It's rated as a top 100 course but isn't even close to that standard from those tees.
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Did you not consider playing off the yellows with the other girls, when you played it?
 
patricks148 said:
Did you not consider playing off the yellows with the other girls, when you played it?
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I had a long chat with the starter who was very keen that I didn't and was adamant that it would have been too difficult from the yellows. He was completely wrong, but you have no way of knowing until you've seen it for yourself so have to trust these people. And he didn't explain the extent to which the course is ruined from the forward tees.

In fairness he also wanted the guys to play from the yellows for much the same reason but they refused to be persuaded. I could have done with a bit of that laddish self-confidence! :D
 
FairwayDodger said:
I had a long chat with the starter who was very keen that I didn't and was adamant that it would have been too difficult from the yellows. He was completely wrong, but you have no way of knowing until you've seen it for yourself so have to trust these people. And he didn't explain the extent to which the course is ruined from the forward tees.

In fairness he also wanted the guys to play from the yellows for much the same reason but they refused to be persuaded. I could have done with a bit of that laddish self-confidence! :D
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shame its a great course.

that must make a change when ever ive played with that lot they never want to play off anything but the yellows:):rofl::rofl:
 
FairwayDodger said:
It's just that too many of the forward tees have been lazily positioned at the start of the fairway, bypassing any hazard or challenge of the tee shot facing players from the other tees.

To be honest, you should pay less as a visitor if you're using those tees. It's rated as a top 100 course but isn't even close to that standard from those tees.
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Another good example would probably the hole in your avatar! All about the tee shot, I don't remember where the reds were on it but I'll wager you didn't have much if any of the hazard (one of the main reasons I wanted to play the course) to go over!
 
patricks148 said:
shame its a great course.
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I think that's why I found it so annoying. I stood on most of the white tees while the guys played so I could see what a good course it is but, too often, I thought "what a great hole" only to walk forward to my tee and be disappointed.... Oh it's another one to hit straight up a wide fairway.....

Not all the holes are affected like that but most of the back nine, IIRC.
 
cookelad said:
Another good example would probably the hole in your avatar! All about the tee shot, I don't remember where the reds were on it but I'll wager you didn't have much if any of the hazard (one of the main reasons I wanted to play the course) to go over!
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Indeed - a much less interesting/dramatic shot from there, pretty much straight up the fairway.
 
patricks148 said:
shame its a great course.

that must make a change when ever ive played with that lot they never want to play off anything but the yellows:):rofl::rofl:
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Excuse me................. :rofl:

I should add Karen and I handed out a dog licence (im sure) that day, we both played well. Toad and he who is not to be mentioned on the other hand had a bad day
 
cookelad said:
The starter should give instruction on the first tee along the lines of "from the whites the longest carry is 200yards, yellow is 170 and reds is 120" and let you decide which tee is appropriate.
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Yeah, he was much more equivocal than that.

As I recall, I'd have been able to play off the yellows quite happily but would have struggled from the whites on a couple of holes.
 
Val said:
Excuse me................. :rofl:

I should add Karen and I handed out a dog licence (im sure) that day, we both played well. Toad and he who is not to be mentioned on the other hand had a bad day
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in that case he would have said the course was overrated:rofl::rofl::rofl:
 
Getting back to the original theme...

Changing the label wont change the memory; that will take years, if ever.
 
I have always said that slope is the way forward. In France, I played comps off whatever tee was suitable for my handicap. I can't remember exactly but the back tees were for something like 12 and under and then the slope adjusts your handicap. 135 slope will adjust a handicap by 135 divided by 113=1.2x handicap so 12 becomes 12 x 1.2 = 14
 
Bigfoot said:
I have always said that slope is the way forward. In France, I played comps off whatever tee was suitable for my handicap. I can't remember exactly but the back tees were for something like 12 and under and then the slope adjusts your handicap. 135 slope will adjust a handicap by 135 divided by 113=1.2x handicap so 12 becomes 12 x 1.2 = 14
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Works for me too, :thup:

When I first moved to NZ was very wary of the system but having played under it can see the advantages and benefits. Firmly believe we will be playing under it or a version of it in this country very soon.
 
It's a fantastic notion and one I support totally but I do agree with others that there will be many clubs, and many members within clubs reticent to take this up. I also think a good many women wouldn't want to play, or enjoy, playing off the yellow which involve a few pretty big carries. That isn't to say they shouldn't be allowed to. Conversely I think it would do me and others good to play off the reds. We do sometimes on the Wednesday supper club when we play "follow the flag" and it's a totally different course
 
As a matter of interest our club has just introduced Gender free tee's, We had a chap having a looking round the club soon after and when told about it joined there and then as it meant he could play with his young daughter who had just started playing.I will keep you updated with any news or developments on this.
 
Doh said:
We had a chap having a looking round the club soon after and when told about it joined there and then as it meant he could play with his young daughter who had just started playing.
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Why would using different tees keep him from playing with his daughter? My parents and I play together frequently with my father teeing off from the yellows and my mum and me from the reds. No problem there at all. Most competitons at our course are played like that as well, in mixed groups, even if there is a separate ranking for men and women. The only concession you make is that, disregarding the honor in some cases, the guys always tee up first, just for practicality.

Don't get me wrong, I am hugely in favor of gender free tees (or rather, all tees being rated for both genders), just becaue it gives the course greater variety for different skill levels. But you don't need them for women and men to be able play together.
 
It was because she was young about ten I believe and they(tees) are sometimes quite a distance from each other. I am sure it was just a Dad being protective of his daughter as we all have at times and still are even when they have there own children. I thought it just proves it's a good idea.
 
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