what about a slope rating would that solve it?
Gender-Free Tees
- Thread starter FairwayDodger
- Start date
what about a slope rating would that solve it?
FairwayDodger
Money List Winner
Exactly - you need to be playing from the forward tees but there's a stigma to you doing that since they're considered "women's" tees and even if you got over that you'd be using women's par/SSS so not getting a meaningful measure for your score.
FairwayDodger
Money List Winner
Don't know.... don't understand how that works!
Me either but i think it rates the difficulty of the course and you have a graph to show what you should score or similar.
FairwayDodger
Money List Winner
Does it differentiate for gender?
Don't know Karen.
our slope is;
White 6500 SSS 73 slope 134
yellow 6140 SSS 71 both par 71 slope 131
ladies/ Red 5735 par 75 SSS 75 slope 139
FairwayDodger
Money List Winner
Was about to make some comment about men's/women's slope but decided I'm too ill-informed to comment!
Plan to read up on it when I get the time.
Alex1975
Tour Winner
If your on an away day and not in a comp you can play on as forward a tee as you like to no problem. However I was corrected regarding CSS/SSS and stand corrected on the principle of this.
ger147
Tour Winner
Yes it does.
Was about to make some comment about men's/women's slope but decided I'm too ill-informed to comment!
I'm surprised myself, we h had the course re rated this year and with The SSS going up the rating went down (last year the whites were 138) ladies stayed the same.
It must be gender based as i couldn't see how the reds are harder.
FairwayDodger
Money List Winner
Patrick, I had a look at the Nairn website so see what it said about slope. I got distracted though by the hole by hole course guide. It has separate descriptions of each hole from the male and female perspective!! This is wonderful - I haven't seen it on any other golf club website. Fantastic since, obviously, many holes on golf courses play completely differently for the average man off the whites and average woman off the reds!
:thup:
IanG
Tour Rookie
The rating of all tees for both gents and ladies should be a no-brainer and indeed just the kind of thing the new SGU could/should support financially. (The only caveat being if we are going to some unified slope-based system soon it makes sense to re-do all the ratings then)
A related question would be whether we need different ladies and gents handicap (and course par & SSS) ratings at all? Is the dual rating system necessary to have equitable mixed-gender competitions ? Would the game be less enjoyable for either gender if the handicap scales were merged?
No doubt this would result in gents handicaps coming down or ladies going up on average, but does the number actually matter? There would either be more gents or less ladies able to claim to be 'scratch' golfers but does this matter compared to the benefits of having just one scale.
A related question would be whether we need different ladies and gents handicap (and course par & SSS) ratings at all? Is the dual rating system necessary to have equitable mixed-gender competitions ? Would the game be less enjoyable for either gender if the handicap scales were merged?
No doubt this would result in gents handicaps coming down or ladies going up on average, but does the number actually matter? There would either be more gents or less ladies able to claim to be 'scratch' golfers but does this matter compared to the benefits of having just one scale.
Foxholer
Blackballed
I think you missed something!
At most clubs the red tees are only rated for women and the yellow/white only for men. By rating all sets of tees for each gender you can play off whatever you want but still have a meaningful par/SSS to measure yourself against.
Plenty of men would be better playing from the red (shorter) tees and plenty of women could benefit from playing a longer course.
Duncan is right in that there are other issues when it comes to agreeing a set to use for comps, but at least in a social context you'd have more options.
While this would absolutely be the right thing to do, I can't see it happening until the Slope system replaces the Congu handicapping SSS one. It would mean that either the courses (Reds for Men;Yellow White and others for Ladies) would need to be rated for SSS, then re-rated for Slope/Course Rating, or both done at the same time - and they have different rating criteria!
The above assumes that conversion to Course Rating/Slope is inevitable btw!
Slab
Occasional Tour Caddy
Only know a limited amount about slope as some of the courses have been rated here
The slope of a course is used to determine a players handicap for that course (in effect think of your home handicap is just that, the number of shots you'd get at your home course and not really applicable elsewhere)
the reality is that this handicap may travel poorly or really well depending on the difficulty of the 'away' course which kinda makes a mockery of the whole purpose of a handicap system when playing a comp at any other course. So if its a easy course (compared to your home) the slope number will be lower and a player would lose one or more shots off their handicap for that round/comp
If the away course is really tough in comparison their handicap allowance will go up accordingly
As said there is a slope calculation for men & women
The slope of a course is used to determine a players handicap for that course (in effect think of your home handicap is just that, the number of shots you'd get at your home course and not really applicable elsewhere)
the reality is that this handicap may travel poorly or really well depending on the difficulty of the 'away' course which kinda makes a mockery of the whole purpose of a handicap system when playing a comp at any other course. So if its a easy course (compared to your home) the slope number will be lower and a player would lose one or more shots off their handicap for that round/comp
If the away course is really tough in comparison their handicap allowance will go up accordingly
As said there is a slope calculation for men & women
Val
Ryder Cup Winner
As we witnessed at Western Gailes, we all loved the course whereas you were disappointed.
FairwayDodger
Money List Winner
Indeed, the course was a pale imitation of itself from the tees I used.
Bratty
Princess Pouty (Queen of Fish Lips)
I agree that we should be able to choose our tees based on ability, handicap or just plain choice.
However, as has been alluded to already, the ladies at my place would hate the 360 odd male members being able to hack their tees to pieces. Men have two large tee boxes, sometimes three at Westerham, ladies only have one.
However, as has been alluded to already, the ladies at my place would hate the 360 odd male members being able to hack their tees to pieces. Men have two large tee boxes, sometimes three at Westerham, ladies only have one.
FairwayDodger
Money List Winner
Point is, there wouldn't be men's and women's tee boxes - they'd be for all to use. If it transpired the forward tees were too small to accommodate additional traffic, it'd be down to the clubs to ensure they were adequately sized. Which, obviously, has a cost and wouldn't happen overnight.
It's a mindset change but one of many that golf needs to grasp the nettle on, IMO.
Foxholer
Blackballed
This 'travel well/poorly' is exactly what the Course Rating/Slope is meant to combat! Essentially, the Course Rating is the equivalent to the SSS - though to 1 decimal point - and is the average a Scratch player is expected to score. The Slope acknowledges that higher handicap players score progressively poorer on tougher courses on a fairly even 'slope'. So extra shots are allocated for courses that are deemed harder than a particular standard - Slope value 115. Every Tee is rated for both Scratch Rating and Slope, so the particular handicap you ply off on any course can be determined from your Index (which is not your handicap) against a table for the particular course and Tees! Supposedly, that eliminates the 'travels well' issue - though we all know that how we play on any day varies considerably, some players prefer certain types of course and those players who can adapt their games to conditions often score better than those that can't when playing away from their home courses!
The system still has some issues, but UK is the only part of the world that does not use most of the concepts - there are minor variations for Europe and for South Africa, but US, Aus, NZ and most other countries use it! So the plan for a universal system is almost certainly going to end up with the slope system!
And, I believe, it's Gender-Free!