Free drop or not?

[SandyBalls]

Your ball comes to rest in a rabbit scrape right behind a tree in a direct line between ball and your next shot towards the flag. Do you get relief from the scrape, if so how much and in what direction?

This has become a very controversial debate amoung a large group of players and officials at our club.

Any views and interpretations would be appreciated.

 

[birdieman]

There are no morals to this.

Burrowing animal scrape premits a free drop. You locate the nearest point of relief from the scrape, mark it with a tee or something then take out your driver and measure a clublength to the place that offers you the clearest route to green or back into fairway and mark that spot with another tee. Then drop within the tees as near to the end that offers best relief as possible for you. If the ball doesn't stay within the tees drop again, third time you place the ball.
I'm guessing some people are saying you should take a straight line back so as not to gain an advantage from your original lie but that's not the rule, you can drop to the side if you wish but not nearer the hole.

You get plenty bad breaks in golf, this is just a good break so take advantage of it.

 

[Leftie]

There are no morals to this.

Burrowing animal scrape premits a free drop. You locate the nearest point of relief from the scrape, mark it with a tee or something then take out your driver and measure a clublength to the place that offers you the clearest route to green or back into fairway and mark that spot with another tee. Then drop within the tees as near to the end that offers best relief as possible for you. If the ball doesn't stay within the tees drop again, third time you place the ball.
I'm guessing some people are saying you should take a straight line back so as not to gain an advantage from your original lie but that's not the rule, you can drop to the side if you wish but not nearer the hole.

You get plenty bad breaks in golf, this is just a good break so take advantage of it.

Maybe not quite true. If the dropped ball comes to rest within 2 clubs lengths of where it is dropped, and not nearer the hole, then it is played from where it lies.

A dropped ball must be re-dropped, without penalty, if it:
(i) rolls into and comes to rest in a hazard;
(ii) rolls out of and comes to rest outside a hazard;
(iii) rolls onto and comes to rest on a putting green;
(iv) rolls and comes to rest out of bounds;
(v) rolls to and comes to rest in a position where there is interference by the condition from which relief was taken under Rule 24-2b (immovable obstruction), Rule 25-1 (abnormal ground conditions), Rule 25-3 (wrong putting green) or a Local Rule (Rule 33-8a), or rolls back into the pitch-mark from which it was lifted under Rule 25-2 (embedded ball);
(vi) rolls and comes to rest more than two club-lengths from where it first struck a part of the course; or
(vii) rolls and comes to rest nearer the hole than:
(a) its original position or estimated position (see Rule 20-2b) unless otherwise permitted by the Rules; or
(b) the nearest point of relief or maximum available relief (Rule 24-2, 25-1 or 25-3); or
(c) the point where the original ball last crossed the margin of the water hazard or lateral water hazard (Rule 26-1).
If the ball when re-dropped rolls into any position listed above, it must be placed as near as possible to the spot where it first struck a part of the course when re-dropped.

 

[Robobum]

I'm assuming that it is this exception that is causing the confusion??

"Exception: A player may not take relief under this Rule if (a) it is clearly unreasonable for him to make a stroke because of interference by anything other than an abnormal ground condition or (b) interference by an abnormal ground condition would occur only through use of an unnecessarily abnormal stance, swing or direction of play."

Hard one to call unless you can see the situation involved.

 

[bobmac]

This is a stinker. In some cases, no free drop, backwards or sideways

 

[birdieman]

There are no morals to this.

Burrowing animal scrape premits a free drop. You locate the nearest point of relief from the scrape, mark it with a tee or something then take out your driver and measure a clublength to the place that offers you the clearest route to green or back into fairway and mark that spot with another tee. Then drop within the tees as near to the end that offers best relief as possible for you. If the ball doesn't stay within the tees drop again, third time you place the ball.
I'm guessing some people are saying you should take a straight line back so as not to gain an advantage from your original lie but that's not the rule, you can drop to the side if you wish but not nearer the hole.

You get plenty bad breaks in golf, this is just a good break so take advantage of it.

Maybe not quite true. If the dropped ball comes to rest within 2 clubs lengths of where it is dropped, and not nearer the hole, then it is played from where it lies.

A dropped ball must be re-dropped, without penalty, if it:
(i) rolls into and comes to rest in a hazard;
(ii) rolls out of and comes to rest outside a hazard;
(iii) rolls onto and comes to rest on a putting green;
(iv) rolls and comes to rest out of bounds;
(v) rolls to and comes to rest in a position where there is interference by the condition from which relief was taken under Rule 24-2b (immovable obstruction), Rule 25-1 (abnormal ground conditions), Rule 25-3 (wrong putting green) or a Local Rule (Rule 33-8a), or rolls back into the pitch-mark from which it was lifted under Rule 25-2 (embedded ball);
(vi) rolls and comes to rest more than two club-lengths from where it first struck a part of the course; or
(vii) rolls and comes to rest nearer the hole than:
(a) its original position or estimated position (see Rule 20-2b) unless otherwise permitted by the Rules; or
(b) the nearest point of relief or maximum available relief (Rule 24-2, 25-1 or 25-3); or
(c) the point where the original ball last crossed the margin of the water hazard or lateral water hazard (Rule 26-1).
If the ball when re-dropped rolls into any position listed above, it must be placed as near as possible to the spot where it first struck a part of the course when re-dropped.

Leftie, are you saying as long as I drop the ball within the one clublength from the nearest point of relief te ball doesn't have to stay there so if it rolls up to another clublength away I just play it? Didn't know that, I thought the one clublength from the nearest point of relief was all I was allowed.
Need clarification please.

My take was always -
Free drop - one clublength from nearest point of relief.
Penalty drop - two clublengths from the actual ball or straight line back from flag thru ball line or back to where you played your last shot.

 

[freddielong]

To me you get the free drop because your ball is in a scrapeing so even if you were to play sideways you would still be entitled to relief. Once you take releif if this opens up the green then you re just a lucky little (add your own)

IMO absolutely a free drop because its a free drop whichever way you are looking to play it

 

[SandyBalls]

I'm assuming that it is this exception that is causing the confusion??

"Exception: A player may not take relief under this Rule if (a) it is clearly unreasonable for him to make a stroke because of interference by anything other than an abnormal ground condition or (b) interference by an abnormal ground condition would occur only through use of an unnecessarily abnormal stance, swing or direction of play."

Hard one to call unless you can see the situation involved.

This is correct. Not surprising that birdieman makes so many birdies eh?
No relief because it is "unreasonable' to make a stroke due to the tree being in the way.
One could argue that you wanted to play the ball out sideways therefore the tree is not obstructing your swing. So you can take relief but would then still have to make the sideways swing for which you claimed relief.

 

[JustOne]

I'm assuming that it is this exception that is causing the confusion??

"Exception: A player may not take relief under this Rule if (a) it is clearly unreasonable for him to make a stroke because of interference by anything other than an abnormal ground condition or (b) interference by an abnormal ground condition would occur only through use of an unnecessarily abnormal stance, swing or direction of play."

Hard one to call unless you can see the situation involved.

This is correct. Not surprising that birdieman makes so many birdies eh?
No relief because it is "unreasonable' to make a stroke due to the tree being in the way.
One could argue that you wanted to play the ball out sideways therefore the tree is not obstructing your swing. So you can take relief but would then still have to make the sideways swing for which you claimed relief.

I don't think that is true. Once you have taken relief you can re-evaluate how your ball is lying and what your options are, subsequently playing forwards if possible. You wouldn't get relief for example if you were in a bush and there was also an animal scrape near your ball.

 

[SandyBalls]

I'm assuming that it is this exception that is causing the confusion??

"Exception: A player may not take relief under this Rule if (a) it is clearly unreasonable for him to make a stroke because of interference by anything other than an abnormal ground condition or (b) interference by an abnormal ground condition would occur only through use of an unnecessarily abnormal stance, swing or direction of play."

Hard one to call unless you can see the situation involved.

This is correct. Not surprising that birdieman makes so many birdies eh?
No relief because it is "unreasonable' to make a stroke due to the tree being in the way.
One could argue that you wanted to play the ball out sideways therefore the tree is not obstructing your swing. So you can take relief but would then still have to make the sideways swing for which you claimed relief.

I don't think that is true. Once you have taken relief you can re-evaluate how your ball is lying and what your options are, subsequently playing forwards if possible. You wouldn't get relief for example if you were in a bush and there was also an animal scrape near your ball.

So the difference between making a stroke because of a bush in the way and making a stroke because a tree in the way is what exactly?

The fact is it is unreasonable to make a stroke because of the tree in the way so no relief should be granted. That is the argument for no relief.

I would love to have a rules officiator respond to this.

 

[freddielong]

Yes justoneUK once you have dropped it you can change your mind and play it to the green if that option is now open to you.

This IMO is a definite free drop 100% certain

 

[JustOne]

So the difference between making a stroke because of a bush in the way and making a stroke because a tree in the way is what exactly?

I said IN a bush. The rules work both for and against. When playing golf you are not supposed to be in an animal scrape so you get relief, unless your ball is literally already unplayable, even then it would be down to making a decision with your playing partners or referee if available.

I have seen someone who was near a staked tree have to take relief, he had to drop it behind a tree! and play out sideways... dem's the rulez.

 

[bobmac]

I think a rules official would ask the player this question.
If the scrape wasnt there, would you reasonably expect to play your next shot towards the flag ie out of the bush or through a tree trunk.
If the player answers no, he/she would chip out sideways, then no free drop.
I'm not saying I agree with it or not but I believe thats what would happen.

 

[viscount17]

you get free relief from the scrape not from the tree, but as is said above 'nearest point of relief with the club you intend to use' may not be behind the tree.
nearest point behind may be at least a full club length back, nearest point to the side may be 1 foot.

'nearest' has to mean nearest/closest?

if you want relief from a tree then declare an unplayable and take the stroke penalty for doing so.
you aren't entitled to relief just because your line is blocked.

 

[SammmeBee]

From the Decisions book:

25-1b/3 Improving Line of Play When Taking Relief from Abnormal Ground Condition

Q: In certain circumstances, in complying with Rule 25-1b, it is possible for a player incidentally to improve his line of play, e.g. avoid playing over a bunker or a tree. Is this permissible?

A: Yes. If a player's ball is in one of the conditions covered by Rule 25 and if, in taking relief in accordance with the procedure laid down in Rule 25-1b, his line of play is improved, this is his good fortune.

 

[bobmac]

What would you class as abnormal ground conditions?

 

[Robobum]

If I am picturing the scenario correctly then I would take free relief from the scrape. If I could make a swing at moving the ball sideways (or backwards) and nothing else was stopping me from making this stroke then I'd argue that I was entitled to it.

What I did then would and in what direction I played in would depend on the outcome of the drop?

 

[SammmeBee]

What would you class as abnormal ground conditions?

Well the rules say this:

An "abnormal ground condition" is any casual water, ground under repair or hole, cast or runway on the course made by a burrowing animal, a reptile or a bird.

 

[bobmac]

I agree but before you even get to that point, you have to ask the question I asked above
The bush/ tree trunk takes priority.

 

[Robobum]

What would you class as abnormal ground conditions?

Not going down the "Seve line" are you Bob??

To paraphrase:

"Si eeets a scrape by a burrowing animal"

"Like a dog scrape Seve?"

"Si a dog scrape!"

"A dog is not a burrowing animal Seve, play it as it lies!"