Free drop from path - nearest point of relief...

[AmandaJR]

In today's match David was in a nasty old place! Just off a man-made path which he would be standing on (so a free drop). The ball was on the edge of a huge expanse of nasty gorse bushes so his nearest point of relief from the path would have been to drop a club length in there with the ball never to be seen again. Could he have taken a drop on a more lateral line (so no nearer the pin) but in fact still be on and play from the path? I assumed not and that full relief from the path had to be taken but worth checking for future reference.

 

[rosecott]

In 99.9% of situations there is only one point which is the Nearest Point of Relief. If that turned out to be putting him into deep trouble if he dropped the ball at that point or within 1 clublength of it, then the best course of action would be to play it as it lies.

Depending on the width of the path, the NPR might even have been on the "better" side of the path. It's always wise to measure carefully.

 

[duncan mackie]

if you take relief from an IO such as this you are required to re-drop if the IO continues to interfere.

not quite sure what "...his nearest point of relief from the path would have been to drop a club length in there" meant - NPR and club lengths are separate issues.

 

[fundy]

Has to take full relief and that has to be the nearest point of relief, so ultimately in this sort of situation there is one spot where he can drop and it sounds as though that was in the bush, Im assuming he played it as it lied!

 

[Colin L]

It's always advisable to leave your ball where it is while you size up the situation. Once lifted, you are committed either to taking the relief wherever that turns out to be or to replacing under penalty.

 

[Scottjd1]

We hve this quite often at my course, annoying as the option of dropping in thick brambles/bushes and no shot or hitting a nice foged wedge of a stony cartpath......what to do??

 

[AmandaJR]

Yes he played it (sort of!) as it lay which was just off the path and with no backswing due to the gorse bushes. It was for sure the nearest point of relief to go back into the bushes as the ball was just off the path on that side and the "nicer!" side further away. I thought what we decided was right but next time I'll know 100%.

 

[Colin L]

Scott
You always have the option of playing from where you played the previous stroke under stroke and distance. Rule 27-1(a)

Although it costs you a penalty stroke it can sometimes be a good choice.

An afterthought. Come to think of it, you could also consider an unplayable lie.

 

[AmandaJR]

Scott
You always have the option of playing from where you played the previous stroke under stroke and distance. Rule 27-1(a)

Although it costs you a penalty stroke it can sometimes be a good choice.

I did suggest that and still think it was the wisest course of action as at best it was a stab out into more rough stuff.

 

[Colin L]

Very generous of you to give your opponent suggestions Amanda.

I slipped in that afterthought about an unplayable lie while you were posting. In the situation you described it could be that, if the player accepted a penalty was worth taking, a drop within 2 club lengths or () back on the line between ball and hole would be better than stroke and distance if it took her on to the better side of the path

 

[AmandaJR]

Very generous of you to give your opponent suggestions Amanda.

I slipped in that afterthought about an unplayable lie while you were posting. In the situation you described it could be that, if the player accepted a penalty was worth taking, a drop within 2 club lengths or () back on the line between ball and hole would be better than stroke and distance if it took her on to the better side of the path

It was actually my playing partner and husband - hence him ignoring my advice!! The 2 club lengths on a line between ball and hole also meant the gorse so a case of between a rock and a hard place (or an IO and prickly cack)!

 

[duncan mackie]

It was actually my playing partner and husband - hence him ignoring my advice!! The 2 club lengths on a line between ball and hole also meant the gorse so a case of between a rock and a hard place (or an IO and prickly cack)!

the 2cl can be any direction you wish - not nearer the hole, not on a green, not in a hazard......

from the number of times I see people measuring 2cl from yellow WH, paths and buildings I realise it's a point of confusion to many!

 

[AmandaJR]

the 2cl can be any direction you wish - not nearer the hole, not on a green, not in a hazard......

from the number of times I see people measuring 2cl from yellow WH, paths and buildings I realise it's a point of confusion to many!

So it's not 2 club lengths keeping the spot where the ball lay between it and the hole?

In which case he could have decared it unplayable...dropped out 2 club lengths laterally which would have taken it to the nearside of the path and then a free drop nearest point of relief plus 1 club length?

 

[rosecott]

So it's not 2 club lengths keeping the spot where the ball lay between it and the hole?

In which case he could have decared it unplayable...dropped out 2 club lengths laterally which would have taken it to the nearside of the path and then a free drop nearest point of relief plus 1 club length?

Yes, but he wouldn't have listened to you.

 

[Colin L]

The 2 club lengths (Rule 28c ) and the any distance back along the line (Rule 28b) are two distinct options.

With 2 club lengths you have an arc of 180 degrees to drop in and then the ball may roll up to a further 2 club lengths so with a favourable slope you can end up 4 club lengths from where you were.

If after dropping under penalty there was interference from the path, you would be entitled to relief.

 

[Region3]

This might not have been possible depending on the location of the path, npr and the bush, but is the following taking advantage of the rules, not allowed, or just a bit sneaky?

Ball on path to left of fairway. NPR is fairway side but in a bush. You mark the npr but then within your club length you drop backwards but near enough to the path to be able to take relief again (interfering with stance) but this time far enough away from the bush to be able to play a stroke.

 

[Colin L]

Not allowed. If when you drop your ball it comes to rest in a position where there is still interference from the original obstruction, you must re-drop. Rule 20-2 c(v)

 

[Foxholer]

Not allowed. If when you drop your ball it comes to rest in a position where there is still interference from the original obstruction, you must re-drop. Rule 20-2 c(v)

Wrong - in this case.

When taking an unplayable, any IO has no bearing. It's only once the 2CLs have been taken - onto the path a(nd hope it bounces favourably and stays on the 'best side' of the path) that the IO rule comes into play.

So Unplayable - Drop within 2 CLs - (costing a penalty shot). Then relief from IO - NPR and drop within 1 CL - (free). In both cases, ball can travel 2 (further CLs). In taking relief from IO, ball cannot end up such that IO comes interferes.

 

[rosecott]

Wrong - in this case.

When taking an unplayable, any IO has no bearing. It's only once the 2CLs have been taken - onto the path a(nd hope it bounces favourably and stays on the 'best side' of the path) that the IO rule comes into play.

So Unplayable - 2 club lengths - and drop (costing a penalty shot). Then relief from IO (free).

I think you've got the wrong end of the stick. Region3 and Colin were not talking about a penalty drop but free relief from Immovable Obstruction.

 

[Region3]

Not allowed. If when you drop your ball it comes to rest in a position where there is still interference from the original obstruction, you must re-drop. Rule 20-2 c(v)

So if that is the case for the original obstruction, could you (in theory) be 10yds off the fairway and carefully drop from staked tree to staked tree to get back to the fairway?