Freak shot

[SaintHacker]

This happened to me today while out playing a few hole on my own, not sure what the rulings would be?
190 yd par 3, bunker to the left front of the green, with the pin cut dead in line behind it, large tree to the right.
Safe play for me is to lay up short on the fairway then try and get up and down.
However, tee shot today went a bit right and into the tree, it then bounced stright back out 90 degrees left, flew straight across the front of the green and plopped straight in the water filled bunker!
When I got down there the unker was full except for aout 6 inches of hard wet sand round the edge. I couldn't drop the ball as it just rolled back into the water, and even when I tried placing it it rolled back in. As there is no way I could have played from the bunker do I get a penalty for dropping outside?
My second question relates to where to drop from, do I drop it in line with the tee shot, thus meaning I have to chip over the bunker, or can I drop along the line the ball entered the hazard, which in this case would be to the right towards the tree meaning I can then take the bunker out of play?
Thanks

 

[d2cko]

As far as I am aware you need to drop the ball on a line back from the flag, keeping the position your ball came to rest at in line also and take a drop with a penalty shot. So unfortunately the bunker will still be in play.

I await to be corrected...

 

[duncan mackie]

1. yes, although you also have the option of playing from the least depth of water in the hazard that complies without penalty

2. neither - it's not a water hazard. your reference point is where the ball lies in the bunker; so the bunker will remain in play between you and the flag.

 

[Region3]

If the only dry part of the bunker is around the edge, and dropping the ball makes it roll back into the water, is it the same a taking relief from casual water on a fairway and you'd place after 2 drops because it rolls to a place where you aren't taking full relief?

 

[duncan mackie]

If the only dry part of the bunker is around the edge, and dropping the ball makes it roll back into the water, is it the same a taking relief from casual water on a fairway and you'd place after 2 drops because it rolls to a place where you aren't taking full relief?

yes and no

because full relief may not be available without taking a penalty you are permitted to take partial relief in a bunker.

 

[Region3]

yes and no

because full relief may not be available without taking a penalty you are permitted to take partial relief in a bunker.

How about if full relief is available but the ball won't stay where it's dropped? Are you allowed to place after 2 drops that roll back into water?

 

[backwoodsman]

How about if full relief is available but the ball won't stay where it's dropped? Are you allowed to place after 2 drops that roll back into water?

Yes. Rule 22-2 c (v)

 

[duncan mackie]

Yes. Rule 22-2 c (v)

I think you mean 20-2 c (v)

 

[duncan mackie]

How about if full relief is available but the ball won't stay where it's dropped? Are you allowed to place after 2 drops that roll back into water?

sorry, my previous wasn't clear. the yes bit was that, as Backwoodsman quotes, 20-2 c (v) continues to apply if full relief is available and an NPR has been established. Note that in this situation it's not a case of 'allowed' but that you must re-drop etc. If complete relief is not available then 25-1 b (ii) permits partial relief to be taken.

 

[backwoodsman]

I think you mean 20-2 c (v)

Indeed.

Why do ones porky fingers always one look a fool

 

[Heidi]

surely you played from the bunker? tough if it was almost full of water - as long as there is a bit with no water, and no nearer the hole then thats where you drop (or eventually place) your ball

you cant just take a drop out of a hazard!

surely...

 

[CMAC]

you cant just take a drop out of a hazard!

surely...

under penalty of 1 stroke you can

 

[SaintHacker]

surely you played from the bunker? tough if it was almost full of water - as long as there is a bit with no water, and no nearer the hole then thats where you drop (or eventually place) your ball

you cant just take a drop out of a hazard!

surely...

No, because the ball wouldn't sit on the sand, it just rolled back in the water, and even if it had I couldn't take a stance as I would have been knee deep in water!

 

[d2cko]

No, because the ball wouldn't sit on the sand, it just rolled back in the water, and even if it had I couldn't take a stance as I would have been knee deep in water!

But if it had been possible to place it them you could've easily got a stance. Simply turn the other way and play out backwards with your feet out of the bunker.

 

[Heidi]

But if it had been possible to place it them you could've easily got a stance. Simply turn the other way and play out backwards with your feet out of the bunker.

Thats what i thought!

if there is some sand and you can get a stance then its just tuff if you have to play out sideways or backwards - or towards a bush or anything other than to the green

you cant just have a drop out of a bunker under a penalty stroke. the bunker has to be completely full of water with NOWHERE to drop and deemed unplayable by the committee??

otherwise I'd be doing it all the time! why would i take the pain of having to play out of a bunker when i could take a one stroke penalty and drop?! what would be the point of a the hazard?

if your ball is in the hazard and right up against the lip and you dont fancy the shot - then i suppose i can take a one stroke penalty and drop the ball IN the bunker? Not OUT of the bunker

could somebody please tell me if this is right?

 

[CMAC]

why would you want to add a penalty stroke on when you could be holing out from the bunker. I'd respectfully suggest you get some bunker lessons rather than accept a penalty stroke and still have to play over it again

There are many times in this wet weather you have to drop outside as the dry part is nearer the hole and illegal to drop there.

 

[duncan mackie]

Thats what i thought!

if there is some sand and you can get a stance then its just tuff if you have to play out sideways or backwards - or towards a bush or anything other than to the green

you cant just have a drop out of a bunker under a penalty stroke. the bunker has to be completely full of water with NOWHERE to drop and deemed unplayable by the committee??

otherwise I'd be doing it all the time! why would i take the pain of having to play out of a bunker when i could take a one stroke penalty and drop?! what would be the point of a the hazard?

if your ball is in the hazard and right up against the lip and you dont fancy the shot - then i suppose i can take a one stroke penalty and drop the ball IN the bunker? Not OUT of the bunker

could somebody please tell me if this is right?

you are mixing things up.....

but it's not surprising given the way these threads meander!

1. in normal playing conditions if you ball is in a bunker and you declare it unplayable then your options include the normal 2 clubs, back on line and back to where you played your last shot - however, the first 2 options have to be in the bunker.

2. if your ball is in casual water in a bunker things change. your free relief options require you to play from the bunker (as discussed above) but you have one further option, and that is to drop behind the bunker keeping the position of the ball between you and the flag/hole. this option exists even if you could drop the ball in the bunker at a point that does not have interference from the casual water.

 

[backwoodsman]

Thats what i thought!

if there is some sand and you can get a stance then its just tuff if you have to play out sideways or backwards - or towards a bush or anything other than to the green

you cant just have a drop out of a bunker under a penalty stroke. the bunker has to be completely full of water with NOWHERE to drop and deemed unplayable by the committee??

otherwise I'd be doing it all the time! why would i take the pain of having to play out of a bunker when i could take a one stroke penalty and drop?! what would be the point of a the hazard?

if your ball is in the hazard and right up against the lip and you dont fancy the shot - then i suppose i can take a one stroke penalty and drop the ball IN the bunker? Not OUT of the bunker

could somebody please tell me if this is right?

If there is casual water in the bunker, you always get a choice to drop outside the bunker under penalty of one stroke if you so wish. Bunker doesn't have to be full, and doesn't need to be approved by committee. (See rule 25-1 (b) (ii) b). And if you choose to elect a ball unplayable in a bunker (at any time regardless of any casual water) you can always choose Stroke and Distance - although you can't choose the other "on a line" or "two club lengths" options unless still within the bunker

Damn... Duncan always types faster...

 

[Heidi]

you are mixing things up.....

but it's not surprising given the way these threads meander!

1. in normal playing conditions if you ball is in a bunker and you declare it unplayable then your options include the normal 2 clubs, back on line and back to where you played your last shot - however, the first 2 options have to be in the bunker.

2. if your ball is in casual water in a bunker things change. your free relief options require you to play from the bunker (as discussed above) but you have one further option, and that is to drop behind the bunker keeping the position of the ball between you and the flag/hole. this option exists even if you could drop the ball in the bunker at a point that does not have interference from the casual water.

nope - still confused Dunc!
lets ignore the water and just concentrate on no 1

I'm on a par 3 and i hit my tee shot straight into a bunker
if i'm having a mare with bunkers i can then deem it unplayable straight away and take 3 off the tee? stroke and distance penalty.

doesnt seem right to me!

 

[CMAC]

What doesn't seem right? You are now 3 off the tee, no closer to the hole and might end up in a bunker again! Your posts are coming across as if you see this as an advantage!!