forged question

If Freddielong is correct with his one word answer, why does Bob Vokey chose to make the best selling wedges (and one of the most highly regarded in magazine reviews) from a casting? Why choose for your most sensitive club, the one where feel is all important, a material which is rock hard? Why not use a nice soft forging?

Because it doesn't make any difference.

When you bash a piece of plastic with a piece of steel, it is the plastic that gives, not the metal.
 
There is a link between sound and feel as the are both caused by vibration. One is the vibration of Air the other the vibration of the Club one heard the other felt.

All I can say is I have hit so many clubs in my time I hit pretty much everything that comes out as one of my best friends is a club pro, and yes we have done blind tests and every single time Mizuno comes out on top coincidence I think not.

The test you are describing was more than likely financed by Taylormade to push one of there inferior products.
 
If Freddielong is correct with his one word answer, why does Bob Vokey chose to make the best selling wedges (and one of the most highly regarded in magazine reviews) from a casting? Why choose for your most sensitive club, the one where feel is all important, a material which is rock hard? Why not use a nice soft forging?

Because it doesn't make any difference.

When you bash a piece of plastic with a piece of steel, it is the plastic that gives, not the metal.
Click to expand...

Well the answer to that is because spin is created by the perfectly milled flat surface of the wedge face and not the grooves. It's very hard to maintain a really good head face with a forged club due to stone damage etc. The grooves do not impart spin. This is a myth. The grooves of a club serve to eject the crud (grass, mud etc) that gets in the way of the ball on the face.

Tests have been done and the most effective spin machine is a face with no grooves at all. Unfortunately this is useless in anything other than perfectly dry conditions from the fairway.

sorry, went off on one there!
 
If Freddielong is correct with his one word answer, why does Bob Vokey chose to make the best selling wedges (and one of the most highly regarded in magazine reviews) from a casting? Why choose for your most sensitive club, the one where feel is all important, a material which is rock hard? Why not use a nice soft forging?

Because it doesn't make any difference.

When you bash a piece of plastic with a piece of steel, it is the plastic that gives, not the metal.
Click to expand...

This is why

Titleist Vokey Design wedges are cast from mild carbon steel which is heat treated to match the softness of the material we use in our family of forged irons (Z•B Forged, Z•M Forged, AP2). This means the feel and sound of Vokey wedges are similar to forged irons. We choose to cast Vokey wedges because of the large number of models we develop for both the worldwide professional tours and the marketplace. Cast tooling is a more efficient and accurate way to faithfully reproduce the special grinds Bob creates for the Tour. We are also able to more rapidly develop and test prototype sole grinds and to finalize the slight tweaks needed to create the best performing wedge products.
 
Kind of know that, but you can put grooves in a cast or forged surface. If the material the face is made of is so important, why does Vokey use a casting? At Titleist, he could use a forged or cast head, they do both, but he chooses to make wedges from castings. Odd, if forging are so much better.

It isn't so they last longer either, as most manufacturers won't give a stuff. Why do they want you to keep a club for ages when you could buy a shiny new one every 6 months.
 
If Titleist can make a casting as soft as a forged head, why doesn't everyone?

I still don't believe it makes a difference.

If castings are so bad, why would Cabrera and Westwood limit themselves with shoddy equipment?

Why also, do so few pro's play mizuno?

Casting came into golf because it is cheaper than forging, and because more complex shapes can be made. This makes them ideal for cavity back GI irons. I believe it was Ping who introduced cast heads, and they still persist with only using casting today.

My view on the whole cast/forged thing is it is snobery, nothing else.
 
Why does a forged head sound so different to a cast head?

Because the air bubbles produced in the casting process affect sound vibration. You can think of it this way: fill two wine glasses with water, one with fizzy carbonated and the other with still. Then flick or tap the glass with a pen, or something. The sound is totally different. The fizzy water glass gives a dead 'pip' while the still water creates a longer 'di-i-i-ng'. The bubbles absorb the sound. And so it is with golf clubs. Cast heads dampen the sound quickly because there is air inside the metal. That's why they sound and feel dead. Our mild carbon steel forged heads, with no bubbles, produce a longer sound duration which gives more feedback

I am not a fan of all forgeing either I think the Titleist irons feel rubbish (sorry my opinion). Mizuno IMO are the best and I only have 25 years experience of hitting golf balls with different golf clubs to back that up.
 
To interject, though based on no 'factual' info.

Surely the tinging sound is just that. Sound. I can see how the vibrations relate to feel. But your talking about something that is in contact with the ball for what? A nano second? And is happening 3 to four feet at the other end of the club. So if it's about feel, we should be looking at the 'transfer' of that feel, ie. the shaft and the grip on the club. Because those also effect 'feel'?

Sorry, more questions rather than answers.

So 'feel' means 'sound' then?
 
Casting came into golf because it is cheaper than forging, and because more complex shapes can be made. This makes them ideal for cavity back GI irons. I believe it was Ping who introduced cast heads, and they still persist with only using casting today.

My view on the whole cast/forged thing is it is snobery, nothing else.
Click to expand...

The Mizuno MX100 is dead ugly in comparison with the MX200. Whether that is down to one being cast, and the other forged, I don't know.

Pings and Callaways are, as a rule, pretty fugly too.

My eyes think I'm a single figure handicapper, but my talent says get a solid set of GI castings and just close my eyes when I hit it ( which is pretty much what I do anyway :o ).

I think there is a difference between the two types. I think those that use cast clubs tend not to be too worried about shot shaping, compared with the forgesters. If they hit it consistantly where they want to time after time with a standard shot, why do they need to shape it every which way ? I have no proof to back this up, other than negative proof. I can't remember the last time I read an article by one of the casties about working the ball round the course. ( Gowon prove me wrong now ).

There is a difference, but is it worth worrying about ? Surely a top notch set of cast clubs is going to be better quality than a cheap set of forged :D ??
 
To interject, though based on no 'factual' info.

Surely the tinging sound is just that. Sound. I can see how the vibrations relate to feel. But your talking about something that is in contact with the ball for what? A nano second? And is happening 3 to four feet at the other end of the club. So if it's about feel, we should be looking at the 'transfer' of that feel, ie. the shaft and the grip on the club. Because those also effect 'feel'?

Sorry, more questions rather than answers.

So 'feel' means 'sound' then?
Click to expand...

For me feel is just that feel through my hands a pureness of vibration when the golf ball is hit by the club face. I understand your point about shafts and grips for me I always use the say Dynamic Gold X100's and lampkin crossline grips so maybe there is something in there

If there was no way of telling the feeling through your hands during a strike wouldn't all golf balls feel the same, everyone here knows they don't and wouldn't all strikes (anywhere on the face) feel the same.
 
Thanks for your answer Freddie.

With regards to the feel off the face regardless of where you stike the ball on the clubface.

I have a set of cast Mizuno MX19s. I play off 27. Yet despite using these thick cavity backed, large soled clubs. Even I can tell if the ball has come out of the toe or heel through feel alone. I don't need a set of forged (blades) to know that.

I did try some MP52s the other week. Yes I could feel the good strikes and the bad ones. Boy did the bad ones feel bad compared to my clubs. But I'd expect that with a bladed club. But whether it's cast or forged is surely irrelevant. Surely it's the design and shape of the club head that affects feel more than the manufactuering process?

I'm afraid I don't know the answers, and I haven't yet come down on one side of the fence or another. But I am interested in what reasoning people use in this debate.
 
What you are feeling on a mishit is torque, not vibration. And if the club has a smaller sweet spot (by design) then you will get more feed back from mishits due to the club twisting.

I cannot believe that anyone can feel a difference in the way the head is manufactured, based on being attached to 4 foot of steel tube with a vibration absorbing rubber grip and a glove on. Impossible.

If you think Titleist don't feel right, it is because you are not finding the sweet spot, not because of the manufacturing process. A forging is a forging afterall, they are all the same, despite the waffle on the mizuno web site. How ever you jazz it up, you heat up a bit of steel, and then bash it a few times.
 
Prior to getting my 200's I had Callaway X18's. OK I didn't have them long, but could tell when I had mis-hit a shot with them, especially if I clattered it off the toe. I could feel it.
I've had my 200's for about 3 months now and am playing more regularly than I was 6 months ago. I can honestly say that even on mis-hit shots I don't feel a thing with the Mizuno's.
Whether that's down to the "forged versus cast" I don't know. But the Mizzy's are the best clubs I've had since my Tommy Armour 845's which I loved.
 
The only differnce i feel using a forged head to a cast one is it feels like the ball stays on the face longer with a forged iron

Not sure how to explain it but the girlfirend has mx19s and the ball flys off those where as with mine 'I' make the ball go

Hold on............nope i cant explain it
 
The only differnce i feel using a forged head to a cast one is it feels like the ball stays on the face longer with a forged iron

Not sure how to explain it but the girlfirend has mx19s and the ball flys off those where as with mine 'I' make the ball go

Hold on............nope i cant explain it
Click to expand...

I think that explains it perfectly
;)
 
A forging is a forging afterall, they are all the same, despite the waffle on the mizuno web site. How ever you jazz it up, you heat up a bit of steel, and then bash it a few times.
Click to expand...

That about sums it up!!!

I have used countless types of club over the years I've been playing.Cast and Forged. Can I honestly tell the difference. Yes. On a cold frosty morning when you don't catch a forged club right it hurts a darn sight more than a cast one.
Other than that, I couldn't tell you the difference.

I've used Mizzys,Pings, Callys, Titleists, Spaldings and Topflites. The best feel from a good strike?
The current X-20 Tour closely followed by the old Topflite Tour from years back.

And to say that the only way to become a good player is using blades is just daft. There's plenty of tour Pros who use cast clubs. And don't be surprised if your Boy doesn't take to golf after trying to use blades to learn.
 
a club head <u>cannot</u> have a larger or smaller sweet spot by design or anything else.

the 'sweet spot' is at the centre of gravity (point of balance) of the club head. it is about the size of a pin head for <u>all</u> clubs.

what they can can do is enlarge and shape the impact area
 
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