For shaft nerds: Variance in performance of "identical" shafts?

[Monty_Brown]

One for the shafts nerds I suppose. Forgive the ramble... it boils down to one fairly simple question at the end I think!

I was having a mooch round AG in Braintree when I got talking to the guy there who is their resident shaft nerd. I was saying that my Cobra ZL Encore is producing a higher ball flight than I like and that possibly the Motore F1 in it was an issue, and could he recommend a different shaft/head combo for a lower flight etc etc

He made a few suggestions and I asked if I could hit a few on their monitor, including the ZL Encore they had in stock, to use as a bench mark.

Now bearing in mind that this was theoretically an identical spec to my own driver, 9.5*, Motore F1 55g in stiff flex... his reply really surprised me. He reckoned it was only worth doing comparisons if I brought my actual driver in to hit on the monitor, as there would be far too big a difference in performance between two supposedly identical shafts, ie mine, and the one on their shelf.

He said the way each shaft was painted, sealed (I forget all the other aspects he mentioned) would make them play differently.

In my mind, for him to be saying that the build quality can vary that much in real-deal tour spec shafts is mad. How can things like custom fitting really work if what comes back from the manufacturer could vary depending on how it was made? I accept that some made-for shafts are iffy in quality, but when you pay top whack for a shaft and are told it can vary from one unit to the next....

Is he talking cobblers or should we really only be buying the actual shaft we have hit, rather than getting one ordered from the manufacturer? Anyone know any more about this variance he described?

 

[Alex1975]

There have been a few topics that hit right at the heart of this the last few days/weeks. Two videos were posted in the Lounge by a club fitter who was testing stock shafts at his facility. The first posted was about how easy it is to break some stock (we believe) TaylorMade shafts when pulling them, he did a comparison with some premisum shafts to make his point. The second was him frequency testing 3 stock shafts from one brand of club, all marked up with the same flex and all turning out to be different flexes.

There was chat in the post that this guy is just trying to upsell to his customers. I am damn sure that is why he did it but I would think he was also trying to give the golfer on the street some insite into his world.

It was said in the post that if the shaft in your club is working for you and it was a cheap stock shaft then your winning. That said, yours is not. In this world you get what you pay for, that is hard to say when a stock driver can cost £300+.

I have no problem believing what your shaft guy in the shop says, I also think if you back to back a club at a shop and yours is better than the other you will not buy it so maybe they dont like to back to back. I have been in AG when the guy did not want to back to back my driver with a 910 and he found a reason to move me off the monitor... I am however a syndic.

 

[Alex1975]

Slightly as a side note there was also another post some months back about driver lofts being way off what was marked up on them... I think it may only have been someone like Bridgstone who checked each head before releasing them to the customer.

 

[GreiginFife]

Slightly as a side note there was also another post some months back about driver lofts being way off what was marked up on them... I think it may only have been someone like Bridgstone who checked each head before releasing them to the customer.

From a manufacture perspective most manufacturers have a +/- 0.5* tolerance on production.
There are a few like Mizuno and Titleist that have Sigma production methodology that allows for tighter process control in their forgings. Cast, theoretically, should be easier to control variance in the tolerance but probably more costly.

 

[Monty_Brown]

I can understand why shops are less keen on back to back comparisons, in case they can't beat the orignal club, but it's the only way they have ANY chance of gettign a sale out of me!

I remember the loft thread a while back and that's pretty shocking too. But then a few guys who know about manufacturing said the tolerances were acceptable, so guess it depends on your perspective.

 

[duncan mackie]

There have been a few topics that hit right at the heart of this the last few days/weeks. Two videos were posted in the Lounge by a club fitter who was testing stock shafts at his facility. The first posted was about how easy it is to break some stock (we believe) TaylorMade shafts when pulling them, he did a comparison with some premisum shafts to make his point. The second was him frequency testing 3 stock shafts from one brand of club, all marked up with the same flex and all turning out to be different flexes.

There was chat in the post that this guy is just trying to upsell to his customers. I am damn sure that is why he did it but I would think he was also trying to give the golfer on the street some insite into his world.

It was said in the post that if the shaft in your club is working for you and it was a cheap stock shaft then your winning. That said, yours is not. In this world you get what you pay for, that is hard to say when a stock driver can cost £300+.

I have no problem believing what your shaft guy in the shop says, I also think if you back to back a club at a shop and yours is better than the other you will not buy it so maybe they dont like to back to back. I have been in AG when the guy did not want to back to back my driver with a 910 and he found a reason to move me off the monitor... I am however a syndic.

I think this is a good summary all round, but would probably add in relation to this specific question 'why do you have testing gear if the shaft that will be delivered is different?'

 

[Ethan]

The variance varies, as it were. A cheap stock shaft made for a mass market brand will vary more than a top line shaft. And so will the head, so the combination can be additive (or even out).

it is a separate question whether the variance is enough for the average player to notice,

On loft, some brands are notorious for having more loft than labelled. A Ping driver may say 9 degrees on it, and their spec may be within a half degree, but that doesn't mean that Ping set the midpoint of the spec range at 9 degrees. 9 degrees may just be another way of saying 'not much loft', and 10.5 degrees a way of saying 'a bit more loft' and neither should be taken literally.