Flags when you're on the green - still permanently in or back to how things were?

[Deleted member 29109]

Played this evening. Took the flags out on all but the longest puts. What a lovely sound the ball makes as it hits the bottom of the hole.

 

[Orikoru]

I hadn;t played a course anywhere that had them until about 4 weeks ago at kirriemuir. What a pain in the arse, we spent nearly every hole whirling the bloody things around, and they were so temperamental the guys I played with ended up doing it by hand, utterly defeating their purpose.

Yeah, 100%. I've also seen ones where you were meant to lift it with your putter but it just slides off so people ended up using their hand as well. How pointless.

 

[rulefan]

We hosted an annual comp between 4 local clubs this pm. Having played earlier I was watching the 18th from the terrace and after a while my wife commented that the four groups (of four players) had all putted out without removing the flagstick. We watched the two remaining groups come in and all players left the flag in. Bizarre.

 

[FourPutt]

I (think I) prefer the flag out on shorter putts, but in honesty, I’m not overly fussed if it’s easier to leave in. I played in a comp today and it was in and out depending on preference. Tried to get everyone who wanted it in to play first, but of course (quite rightly) there were times when they would prefer someone further on a similar line (who wanted it out) to go first and then they wanted it back in. I ended up just playing with it out or in depending what state it was in when it was my turn to putt. The hokey kokey was ridiculous and honestly, slightly irritating.

 

[sweaty sock]

When the rule changed originally a few years back, and you could leave the pin in if you wished, a top Pro did a lot of research on what gave the best odds of the putt staying holed with the pin in or out.

Someone called Bryson DeChambeau in fact (quelle surprise), and if I remember correctly, his research found that leaving the pin in produced statistically better results.

https://golf.com/news/bryson-dechambeau-putting-pin-2019-rules/

This was actually researched, and the conclusion reached in the late 90s by Dave Pelz, for his book "The Putting Bible".

Same conclusion, the flag in is statistically better than flag out.

Loads of other conclusions too, that sum up to putting needs alot of luck...

 

[Orikoru]

This was actually researched, and the conclusion reached in the late 90s by Dave Pelz, for his book "The Putting Bible".

Same conclusion, the flag in is statistically better than flag out.

Loads of other conclusions too, that sum up to putting needs alot of luck...

Why did he bother researching it when people couldn't leave the flags in anyway?

 

[LincolnShep]

I ended up just playing with it out or in depending what state it was in when it was my turn to putt. The hokey kokey was ridiculous and honestly, slightly irritating.

Exactly this. If I was playing for my living, I might care more but I'm not so I don't. My putts just aren't important enough to expect everyone else to wait for me.

 

[KenL]

Why did he bother researching it when people couldn't leave the flags in anyway?

He's a visionary and could see into the future.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

We hosted an annual comp between 4 local clubs this pm. Having played earlier I was watching the 18th from the terrace and after a while my wife commented that the four groups (of four players) had all putted out without removing the flagstick. We watched the two remaining groups come in and all players left the flag in. Bizarre.

Why? Surely enough threads and posts on here will have shown that plenty are happy just to leave the flag in.

 

[sweaty sock]

Why did he bother researching it when people couldn't leave the flags in anyway?

I actually got the book wrong! His research was for chipping and appeared in his "Short game bible". Experiment was basically rolling balls down a ramp at various speeds at various parts of the hole to see if there was a point at which the flag being out was an advantage. His results were there was no a speed where the flag being in was statistically detrimental, and infact the flag was helpful in most circumstances.

 

[Deleted member 30522]

I actually got the book wrong! His research was for chipping and appeared in his "Short game bible". Experiment was basically rolling balls down a ramp at various speeds at various parts of the hole to see if there was a point at which the flag being out was an advantage. His results were there was no a speed where the flag being in was statistically detrimental, and infact the flag was helpful in most circumstances.

I think there was some Japanese fellow did a similar thing when the flag rule was changed in 2019, came to the same conclusions

I can understand that some folk find it off-putting, so like it out, but the myth that it ever keeps the ball out is just that it seems.

 

[FourPutt]

I’d have thought that if it was windy and the flag was blowing and leaning towards where the ball will enter the hole it might keep a pacey putt out that might otherwise have dropped, but I’d also think that the overhit ones that would have shot past or bounced out that the flag will do a favour will balance those out

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Last time out I could count on one hand the number of times my fourball saw the flag removed - and only because the wind was occasionally causing the flagstick to sway quite a bit and for one of us that was distracting - and that's OK for me.

Ahead of us we watched a fourball with some having the flag in and some having it out on a hole by hole basis. From a distance there looked to be awful lot of faffing about, as we stood on most tees watching...and waiting - as we saw them drop more than one hole on the group ahead. Unfortunately we ourselves weren't quick enough to be pressurising them as we were poor off the tee.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Last time out I could count on one hand the number of times my fourball saw the flag removed.

Ahead of us we watched a fourball with some having the flag in and some having it out on a hole by hole basis. From a distance there looked to be awful lot of faffing about, as we stood on most tees watching...and waiting - as we saw them drop more than one hole on the group ahead. Unfortunately we ourselves weren't quick enough to be pressurising them as we were poor off the tee.

Was it a Par 3 Course? If not, why weren’t you getting on with playing rather than watching a group on the green 350-550yds ahead?

 

[clubchamp98]

Stats can prove or disprove anything.
The fact is players have a choice how they want the flag.
There are lots off occasions players waste time but taking the flag out is still a legitimate choice under the ROG so imo it isn’t wasting time ,just part of the game.

 

[Deleted member 23270]

From what I can see those that like the flag in complain about those that like it out but those that like it out don't complain about those that like it in.

 

[Captainron]

Feels a bit weird with them out now to be fair. I left the flag in most of the time if my PP’s didn’t object

 

[Deleted member 23344]

I don’t mind either way. I have played a few fourball seniors matches against other clubs since we have been able to remove the flag and I have only seen one player ask for it to be removed.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Was it a Par 3 Course? If not, why weren’t you getting on with playing rather than watching a group on the green 350-550yds ahead?

We weren’t always teeing off…sorry…didn’t make that very clear. We were often waiting to play our approach shots. Also when you spot that the group ahead of you has dropped at least a hole and a half you tend to have a look to see why that might be.

 

[IanM]

All normal today.....but no one removed a flag at any point.

But how lovely to splash out of a properly raked bunker today.