Finicky rules challenge

[hopeful]

My course is allowing 'preferred lies' through the green at present. My procedure under this is to mark, lift and clean the ball. I then place it, as allowed, within six inches of the marker, not nearer the hole. If I don't like the first placement or if the ball moves slightly after I take my hand away I will reposition the ball BEFORE LIFTING THE MARKER and playing on. During a recent stableford, one of my companions took me to task, saying that once I had placed the ball I was not permitted to touch it again even if the marker was still in place. I think he is wrong and that Rule 20-3/d and Rule 20-6 back me up. What do you think?

 

[Imurg]

As far as I've always played once you've picked,cleaned and replaced the ball is in play and if you don't like it then that's too bad. Once you let go the ball is in play.

 

[fundy]

pretty sure you're only allowed to "prefer" the lie once, so as soon as you place it is back in play and you cant try again, will try and find the rule to confirm

 

[fundy]

Q. What happens if I do not like the spot that I have placed my ball on and want to change it?

The player is only entitled to prefer the lie once, so the spot on which to place the ball must be chosen carefully! The ball is in play as soon as it is placed on the ground. If the player picks it up again and moves it, he would incur a penalty stroke for moving his ball in play and the ball must be replaced (Rule 18-2a).

quote from http://www.randa.org/RandA/News/Features/2010/December/Preferred-Lies.aspx

 

[bobmac]

Without checking the rules, I seem to remember that after you replace the ball and it is at rest, it's then in play

 

[SammmeBee]

“Preferred Lies” and “Winter Rules”
Ground under repair is provided for in Rule 25 and occasional local abnormal conditions that might interfere with fair play and are not widespread should be defined as ground under repair.
However, adverse conditions, such as heavy snows, spring thaws, prolonged rains or extreme heat can make fairways unsatisfactory and sometimes prevent use of heavy mowing equipment. When such conditions are so general throughout a course that the Committee believes “preferred lies” or “winter rules” would promote fair play or help protect the course, the following Local Rule is recommended:

“A ball lying on a closely-mown area through the green (or specify a more restricted area, e.g. at the 6th hole) may be lifted, without penalty, and cleaned. Before lifting the ball, the player must mark its position. Having lifted the ball, he must place it on a spot within (specify area, e.g. six inches, one club-length, etc.) of and not nearer the hole than where it originally lay, that is not in a hazard and not on a putting green.

A player may place his ball only once, and it is in play when it has been placed (Rule 20-4). If the ball fails to come to rest on the spot on which it is placed, Rule 20-3d applies. If the ball when placed comes to rest on the spot on which it is placed and it subsequently moves, there is no penalty and the ball must be played as it lies, unless the provisions of any other Rule apply.

If the player fails to mark the position of the ball before lifting it or moves the ball in any other manner, such as rolling it with a club, he incurs a penalty of one stroke.

 

[hopeful]

Fundy, thanks for the link. (Why the hell couldn't I find it on the randa site?) I stand suitably corrected!

 

[goldenbare]

As a preferred lie is to help a player gain a reasonable lie in poor conditions and this only rightly applies if he has hit the fairway, if he has hit such a bad shot he is on a adjacent fairway, should the rule still apply or should he play the ball as it lies.
He has in fact played a worse shot than if he had only reached the rough.

 

[Imurg]

Closely mown through the green means any fairway doesn't it?

 

[net72]

If you need an alternative interpretation of this rule, ask the_LHC

 

[goldenbare]

Closely mown through the green means any fairway doesn't it?

it would seem to, but doesn't it seem a bit unfair as stated, when a ball a foot in the semi cant be moved but 30yds off target it can be?

 

[Imurg]

Closely mown through the green means any fairway doesn't it?

it would seem to, but doesn't it seem a bit unfair as stated, when a ball a foot in the semi cant be moved but 30yds off target it can be?

Same fairness as at a lot of clubs - they have a winter rule that a ball plugged in the rough can be cleaned and dropped. But a ball in the rough tht isn't plugged can't be cleaned.

 

[TheClaw]

As a preferred lie is to help a player gain a reasonable lie in poor conditions and this only rightly applies if he has hit the fairway, if he has hit such a bad shot he is on a adjacent fairway, should the rule still apply or should he play the ball as it lies.
He has in fact played a worse shot than if he had only reached the rough.

True! So either hit a very good shot or a very bad one

 

[3offTheTee]

As a preferred lie is to help a player gain a reasonable lie in poor conditions .

The preferred lie is for the benefit and protection of the course NOT the player

 

[surefire]

As a preferred lie is to help a player gain a reasonable lie in poor conditions and this only rightly applies if he has hit the fairway, if he has hit such a bad shot he is on a adjacent fairway, should the rule still apply or should he play the ball as it lies.
He has in fact played a worse shot than if he had only reached the rough.

Doesn't this 'unfairness' apply whether preferred lies are in operation or not?

Even without preferred lies, playing off the adjacent fairway is better than having to hack out the cabbage!

 

[Fyldewhite]

As a preferred lie is to help a player gain a reasonable lie in poor conditions .

The preferred lie is for the benefit and protection of the course NOT the player

Er no it isn't. How does preferring the lie on the fairway protect the course? Preferred lies are to ensure that the game can be played in adverse conditions and that a player has a fair chance of playing a golf shot. That's why to be handicap qualifying it has to be closely mown only. ie you get a perfect lie on a fairway and get what you get in the rough.... just like (it should be) in summer.

Courses where protection of the course is an issue usually have a rule to move balls to the side of fairwars or employ mats.

 

[Toby_LeRhone]

...is the correct answer.

 

[goldenbare]

As a preferred lie is to help a player gain a reasonable lie in poor conditions .

The preferred lie is for the benefit and protection of the course NOT the player

Er no it isn't. How does preferring the lie on the fairway protect the course? Preferred lies are to ensure that the game can be played in adverse conditions and that a player has a fair chance of playing a golf shot. That's why to be handicap qualifying it has to be closely mown only. ie you get a perfect lie on a fairway and get what you get in the rough.... just like (it should be) in summer.

Courses where protection of the course is an issue usually have a rule to move balls to the side of fairwars or employ mats.

thank you fyldewhite for correcting this before I saw it. people do get confused by the difference between "preferred lies" for the benefit of players and protecting the course ie by teeing all shots/using mats etc