FAO Scottish golfers.

[patricks148]

It’s not an either or but a both. All demographics should be targeted using a package that is specifically attractive to their needs, but I fully agree that the area that would yield short to med term results would be the 30-50 male, sporting enthusiast. It’s a consumer driven market now

The challenge is not annoying existing members or other clubs

of course you want to encourage all age groups to play, young and old. But the holy grail appears to be under 30's , who one the whole either can't afford it and don't have the time. where as the the core demographic who already make up the majority is being ignored IMO

 

[User20205]

of course you want to encourage all age groups to play, young and old. But the holy grail appears to be under 30's , who one the whole either can't afford it and don't have the time. where as the the core demographic who already make up the majority is being ignored IMO

No, I agree. The best option may be getting them as juniors, golf camps, lessons etc let them go for 25 years and welcome them back into Golf, not necessarily at the same club. That 20-40 isn’t really compatible with Golf club membership in the main. Chucking money at this age group may cause more issues long term

 

[Deleted member 15344]

The reason why the clubs don’t target then 30/40-50 Ex sportsmen are because the club will already be attracting them - up until our recruitment drive a couple years back the only people that were enquiring to look to join were either members of golf clubs in the areas or people looking to play a sport in the summer when they played football or rugby in the winter - those people were still being attracted to the game. The biggest gap in the golf membership was the younger members - members who can get into the club and then become cornerstones of the future of the club

After a new membership person was assigned to the committee he looked at ways to target all areas - couples , retiring sportsmen , juniors , people returning from uni , travelling workers who didn’t settle for more than three years. Different incentives were used to attract different demographics - we went from having 80-100 empty spots to having a waiting list every year for the past three years , and it grows each year. We have an attractive club to people who want to start up the game or want to take it up or just want to move clubs.

 

[patricks148]

No, I agree. The best option may be getting them as juniors, golf camps, lessons etc let them go for 25 years and welcome them back into Golf, not necessarily at the same club. That 20-40 isn’t really compatible with Golf club membership in the main. Chucking money at this age group may cause more issues long term

I was having a chat with my mate last time i had a lesson and he was telling me about the initiative brought in by Jack MacConnell when he was first minister a few years ago .brought about when Scotland didn't get a Ryder Cup at the time. it was all about getting X amount of kids into golf. Only trouble was. no schools have golf course or ranges. so where would all these kids learn??

Very interesting. from what i remember, clubs all of a sudden clubs where having to get coaching and child protection certs, and most of these kids couldn't join the clubs anyway.

its a tough one

 

[Deleted member 21258]

Hard to survive on a variable income when you have fixed overheads, especially if some are driving the price of a green fee down. 241 vouchers, tee times etc are partly to blame. I once paid £8 for a round when I was a nomad, how is that good for Golf?

I would add that most business operate with the fixed overheads(in other industries and survive and golf is no different), learn to adapt or fail.

Green fees of £8 is crazy. Last year we paid £12.50 for twilight rounds at two different courses and just thought that is to cheap, should be £15-£20 region imho.

 

[Deleted member 21258]

We are a club that had about 2 people between the age of 18 and 30 - after doing a recruitment drive we increased that to around 80 , due to a lot of them just starting out working lives or family lives disposable income wasn’t flowing for them ( which we found out after doing market research ) - we introduced an increasing scale for subs for those ages along with the joining fee. Those young people are now fully integrated into the club , some have their wives playing , some have their kids joining the junior section. They have been a great addition to the club.

That is a great result. Did you happen to ask the 80 people what they were doing before joining your club, ie. are they members elsewhere and come to yours because of cheap fees or where they nomads/starter that signed up because of the right deal. Would be interesting to hear the results LP?

The reason I ask, is looking at the 'whole' golf picture, if they changed from clubs for cheaper deal, then it could be argued this is bad for the industry or if nomad/starters then it is the result the industry needs ?

 

[User20205]

I would add that most business operate with the fixed overheads(in other industries and survive and golf is no different), learn to adapt or fail.

I think it’s that adaptation that Golf is going through now. It’s great attracting 100 new members from a previously untapped customer base, but how many of them are viable members in the long term? & can this be done without alienating the current membership?

 

[94tegsi]

yes it is touched on in the vid, and the point is clearly made that visitors are getting a far better deal than fully paid up members, some needing to play 40+ games to "justify" membership, so may be clubs are charging visitors too cheap, but that's a gamble, make it to dear and they don't come.

Totally agree, but we are still missing some key data points. It is possible, in some cases, having to pay so many rounds to justify the cost of a membership could put people off playing entirely.

Could you get 50 extra people playing 10x per year each at £20 a pop at their local course, who would otherwise contribute zero without access to the course and attractive pricing? Add in the potential for these "nomads" also spending £5 at the range a couple of times a month, it can start adding up.

I was one of these guys for a dozen years. 10-20 rounds per year, 20 or so range sessions a year, the odd pint/food etc and I know a lot of others who were similar. This is all the "holy grail" group of 20-35 year olds will commit to, so just because they are not members, do not think they are not contributing


Totally agree that the ideal is having members rather than nomads, but a club (or any business) needs to look at all possible revenue streams to devise the appropriate strategy for success. The presentation only concentrates on the members demographic.


As you mention, its a gamble. Clubs need to have access to info on their members and where their revenue is coming from. They need to be run like a business, analysed and react swiftly to that data or any changes occurring.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

That is a great result. Did you happen to ask the 80 people what they were doing before joining your club, ie. are they members elsewhere and come to yours because of cheap fees or where they nomads/starter that signed up because of the right deal. Would be interesting to hear the results LP?

The reason I ask, is looking at the 'whole' golf picture, if they changed from clubs for cheaper deal, then it could be argued this is bad for the industry or if nomad/starters then it is the result the industry needs ?

Various reasons - some were just society golfers , a couple played the odd round over the years , some were straight to golf , some were coming from other clubs that were more pay and play and thought they wouldn’t be able to afford to join a members club. But a great deal of them were nomads/society golfers who

 

[94tegsi]

I think it’s that adaptation that Golf is going through now. It’s great attracting 100 new members from a previously untapped customer base, but how many of them are viable members in the long term? & can this be done without alienating the current membership?

And how many are just existing members moving from one club to another? So while helping the new club, do not help grow golf overall as numbers playing stays the same.

 

[Reemul]

It is a tough balance to strike. My son plays and I joined his club at the start of October. It is a 9 hole one and while a nice little course 5 par 4's and 4 par 3's it is not long around 1700 yards it is perfect for an 11 year old. I pay £40 a month for 7 day unlimited golf and pay £10 a month for my son. Normally I play 9 holes once a week in the winter and I am hoping to get that up to 2 or 3 in the summer because at 1 game a week it does not pay. It would be cheaper to do the below.

The club do special offers through the year for non members. You can buy 20 round tickets for £100 or 10 for £50 making it £5 a round. This is a good deal but it did annoy some of the members. It does mean I can buy 40 rounds for £200 as they run this twice a year. They also allow you to use a voucher in the winter to play 18 holes rather than 9 and in the summer it is only an additional £5 for 18 holes.

I am going to see how the summer pans out and take my son to a few of the bigger local courses and see how he fairs. He was hitting his driver 170 yards on Sunday in the wet in winter which is a good distance for 11 years old. His coach says he has superb club head speed and just needs his body to catch up size wise. If he can manage and enjoy longer courses I may move. Living in Dorset there is a lot of choice and all types of courses (Except Links).

Most of the members at the course are older, especially as the course suits them, it is tight and narrow but not overly long. The younger players normally pay and play and we do have a good balance but with the options for pay and play and reduced rates having a membership does seem more expensive unless you play a lot. I am 46 played a lot up to 35 then had kids and stopped for 10 years. It would not have really mattered what offers you had for my age, time was and to some extent still is the issue.You also have the issue of weather and plenty do not enjoy playing in bad weather, while the hard core do many do not and that also dilutes the value of a membership.

My club gives me 10% off food and drink as member but I would like to see it include a few more benefits, like unlimited range balls as an example. Being at the range will mean I am buying drinks and snacks or even a meal I may not have. Instead the cost is £2 for 20 balls which is way too much imo. £5 down the road gets me 100 and an indoor heated range which I use in the winter.