F1 2021

[SaintHacker]

Having had a chan e to sleep on it, these are my thoughts on the whole thing. Even though I am a Brit/Lewis supporter the result should stand. Max is a worthy champion this year and should remain so.
Stewardship needs changing, it needs permanent stewards ,not different ones every race.
Team principals should not be able to talk to, and thereby try to influence the race director. Perhaps bring in an intermediary steward, bit like a 4th official in football, who can pass on any legitimate concerns to the director.
Michael Masi needs to resign/be sacked.
Roll on 2022.

 

[Neilds]

I think that Lewis actually lost the championship a few races ago (Baku?) when he went straight on at the restart after Max had a puncture and they restarted with a few laps to go. Lewis had the wrong brake setting selected and didn’t make the first corner. Gave away free point imo

 

[Swango1980]

I think that Lewis actually lost the championship a few races ago (Baku?) when he went straight on at the restart after Max had a puncture and they restarted with a few laps to go. Lewis had the wrong brake setting selected and didn’t make the first corner. Gave away free point imo

Interesting. So Lewis lost the championship because he didn't have a flawless season. Did Max make any errors this season!? Or, is it only Lewis that must have a flawless season to be a worthy world champion?

 

[Foxholer]

Okay. How does a "massive fan" lose interest altogether???

I'm not the one to ask!
Though I'd suggest disillusionment about some aspect of the 'sport' might do it.

 

[Neilds]

Interesting. So Lewis lost the championship because he didn't have a flawless season. Did Max make any errors this season!? Or, is it only Lewis that must have a flawless season to be a worthy world champion?

I didn't say he needed to have a flawless season, just that he made an unforced error and missed an open goal - to quote other sports!

 

[Swango1980]

I didn't say he needed to have a flawless season, just that he made an unforced error and missed an open goal - to quote other sports!

That is fair enough, but I don't think it is valid to go back through the season to pick out mistakes where the title was lost. Otherwise we could go round and round in circles identifying mistakes made by both drivers. Maybe if the mistake was made in the final race, where the stakes were fully known, more emphasis could be made. It is a little like a football team missing out on the league by a point, and saying the defining moment was during game week 10 when a striker missed an open goal at end of game. Ultimately, it isn't really a defining moment.

One might argue any early mistakes made by Hamilton gave himself a kick up the backside, and actually lead to his brilliant driving at the end of the season. So, early mistakes could oddly have helped him in the end, but who knows how that impacted him mentally.

What happened yesterday and in Spa was out of either drivers control, simply an absolute farce created my the FIA. I have been extremely critical of Max's driving style. But, as we've got to end of the season, I'm diluting my criticism against him. The key problem has been the FIA and their handling of various incidents, coupled by the fact Horner seems to have great control over Masi's decision making. How can Max refine his driving style when Horner tells him he can do no wrong, and the FIA fall in line with Red Bull.

I've watched F1 for years, but this has been a truly shocking season. But, for the first time, for reasons related to the FIA.

I do hope Mercedes push this all the way. If roles were reversed, there is no doubt Red Bull would do the same. Fair play to Lewis, who was gracious in this unjust defeat, and he should stay out of it and let Mercedes deal with it. To be fair, Lewis has been very reserved and focused at the back end of this season when decisions have gone against them.

 

[AliMc]

Okay. How does a "massive fan" lose interest altogether???

Don't see how that's an issue tbh, I used to go every game home and away to follow my team in Scottish football but genuinely wouldn't go to the end of my street to watch any game now, just not interested anymore, it happens

 

[Slime]

It wasn't a difficult decision. Apply the rules correctly and consistently, then all back markers (Not just the selected four) should have passed the safety car and rejoined the back of the pack. The safety car would then come in on the next lap which would have been the end of the race. Masi chose to have a 'race', similar level of decision to that farce at Spa. Time to tidy up race control before next year.

Then shouldn't Hamilton have conceded his lead when he cut out the corner at the beginning of the race?
He really did miss out a lot of the circuit.

 

[Deleted member 1147]

Then shouldn't Hamilton have conceded his lead when he cut out the corner at the beginning of the race?
He really did miss out a lot of the circuit.

I don't think he needed to give Max the lead, because he was actually in the lead going into the corner. Max basically blocked him off track, and thus forced him to cut the corner.
Perhaps he shouldn't have pulled away so far, and should have come back to those behind him, to show that he wasn't benefitting from the cut corner?

 

[Deleted member 30522]

How can a self proclaimed "massive" fan stop watching altogether for 20 years???
That doesn't make sense...

Because the last 20 years have been utterly dire perhaps?

I'm very much the same, I never missed a race up until my mid 30s, then along came the one team dominance of Schumacher and now Hamilton, with a period of Red Bull thrown into the middle. There's no overtaking, it's unbelievably boring.

However with Lewis looking like losing this season, I've been tuned into the last 3 races, yesterday while another example of the genre, did at least produce the most exciting finish in 2 decades, and for that we can thank Massi for allowing them to race for that final lap. Edge of the seat stuff, brilliant viewing.

 

[Canary_Yellow]

I've digested yesterday's events overnight, and still feel the same.

I've no objection to Verstappen winning the World Championship, he is a worthy winner. It's certainly no fluke, a la Rosberg, Button and a few others. Over the course of the season, both drivers have been brilliant. Well done Max Verstappen, what happened yesterday was not his fault.

However, it was a farce. What is the role of the race director if not to enforce the rules and ensure sporting integrity? Sometimes, the race director and the stewards are faced with subjective issues and they make decisions that not everyone agrees with, sometimes those decisions are somewhat inconsistent, they're only human after all. Yesterday, though, there was no subjectivity to the rules as everyone understood them, the rule book was torn up and sporting integrity binned at the same time, in the interests of entertainment. That doesn't sit right with me. The race director should be impartial, ensuring that the rules are followed to the letter throughout the entire season, regardless of the circumstances of the race; emotion shouldn't be a factor in that person's decision making.

The sad thing though is that this is all being driven by Liberty's drive for entertainment and drama, which ultimately makes them money. Masi has delivered what they want and that will please them - they won't mind the ongoing furore as there's no such thing as bad publicity as far as they are concerned. They'll keep on running the sport like this as it suits them very nicely indeed.

 

[Deleted member 30522]

Having had a chan e to sleep on it, these are my thoughts on the whole thing. Even though I am a Brit/Lewis supporter the result should stand. Max is a worthy champion this year and should remain so.
Stewardship needs changing, it needs permanent stewards ,not different ones every race.
Team principals should not be able to talk to, and thereby try to influence the race director. Perhaps bring in an intermediary steward, bit like a 4th official in football, who can pass on any legitimate concerns to the director.
Michael Masi needs to resign/be sacked.
Roll on 2022.

Yes to both, there's been some farcical race penalties this year, now a permanent team might not change that, but at least you'd have someone looking race to race with the same set of eyes.

And I think it was Coulthard who said that about the team principals yesterday, absolutely spot on, Mercedes now whinging about a "bad" decision, Massi even said 'get off the radio I'm dealing with a situation'', and now they're whining cos they think he got it wrong. They put the pressure on, then moan when the pressure backfires. Your 4th official analogy is spot on.

 

[Wilson]

Having slept on it, my feeling haven't changed - it's now drama, not Sport. I'm not a massive fan of either driver, but Hamilton was robbed yesterday, he was cruising to a win, so to engineer the last lap shootout like they did, especially when the rules are clear, is disgraceful.

I'd got back into F1 this year, but not for me anymore, thanks.

 

[Tashyboy]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/59631665

This is a very good read indeed. It may enlighten one or two. Bottom line it sums up yesterdays farce. For me I cannot see it finishing anytime before it go to court.
personally I am surprised other “ neutral” teams never put in complaints about how the final decisions were made.

Quote from the link
The questions over the rules
What followed was unprecedented.

Race director Michael Masi initially said lapped cars would not be allowed to overtake, which would have left five cars between Hamilton and Verstappen for the one lap of racing that it looked like would be left.

That's against normal protocol, so Red Bull complained.

Masi changed his mind and let those five cars overtake - but not the other three. This put Verstappen and Hamilton together but left two lapped cars between third-placed Carlos Sainz's Ferrari and Verstappen and one between Valtteri Bottas' Mercedes and Yuki Tsunoda's Alpha Tauri.

This is also against normal protocol. So Mercedes complained, to no avail.
?

 

[Swango1980]

Because the last 20 years have been utterly dire perhaps?

I'm very much the same, I never missed a race up until my mid 30s, then along came the one team dominance of Schumacher and now Hamilton, with a period of Red Bull thrown into the middle. There's no overtaking, it's unbelievably boring.

However with Lewis looking like losing this season, I've been tuned into the last 3 races, yesterday while another example of the genre, did at least produce the most exciting finish in 2 decades, and for that we can thank Massi for allowing them to race for that final lap. Edge of the seat stuff, brilliant viewing.

There is some truth in this.

Very similar to the year 1992, when Hulk Hogan was being subject to a two on one attack by Sid Justice and Papa Shango. Then, out of nowhere, the Ultimate Warrior's theme tune starts playing in the background, then the Ultimate Warrior comes flying out, looked charged up on steroids, and takes out Sid Justice and Papa Shango. Pure entertainment, and that is what Masi is trying to accomplish in F1. Maybe he sees himself as the Vince McMahon of F1? Entertainment wins over sport.

 

[Piece]

Then shouldn't Hamilton have conceded his lead when he cut out the corner at the beginning of the race?
He really did miss out a lot of the circuit.

Because he was forced off the circuit and had nowhere to go. Masi's words not mine. Lewis slowed a bit to reduce the margin, again Masi's words not mine. To rejoin the track earlier would have been wholly unsafe and a likely time penalty. My words

That incident is one of many that needs review in the close season as Max's style of overtaking needs clarity so that all drivers can know what is acceptable next year.

 

[Canary_Yellow]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/59631665

This is a very good read indeed. It may enlighten one or two. Bottom line it sums up yesterdays farce. For me I cannot see it finishing anytime before it go to court.
personally I am surprised other “ neutral” teams never put in complaints about how the final decisions were made.

Quote from the link
The questions over the rules
What followed was unprecedented.

Race director Michael Masi initially said lapped cars would not be allowed to overtake, which would have left five cars between Hamilton and Verstappen for the one lap of racing that it looked like would be left.

That's against normal protocol, so Red Bull complained.

Masi changed his mind and let those five cars overtake - but not the other three. This put Verstappen and Hamilton together but left two lapped cars between third-placed Carlos Sainz's Ferrari and Verstappen and one between Valtteri Bottas' Mercedes and Yuki Tsunoda's Alpha Tauri.

This is also against normal protocol. So Mercedes complained, to no avail.
?

Thing is, although not within normal protocol, option 1 which Red Bull complained about was within the rules. It was a way Masi could have got them racing with a lap to go, without bending the rules.

Option 2, which Merc are complaining about, was not within the rules, and there is no precedent for it.

The 2 viable alternatives according to the rules, were leave lapped cars in place and have a one lap race, or remove lapped cars and finish under the safety car.

To be consistent, it really should have been unlapped cars out of the way and finish under the safety car, because that's what would have been done in any other race of the season, or at any other point in any other race, including this one.

Regardless of whether any one is pro-Verstappen or pro-Hamilton, or whether they think one driver was more deserving than the other over the season as a whole, in the interests of the integrity of the competition in the future, they should not be pleased with how this has been handled. It's not really about which driver should have won, it's about whether what happened yesterday was fair in the context of the rules of the sport. If this carries on, it's Merc that have lost out this season, but who will it be next season? No one can think that's right, surely?!?!

 

[Dando]

Then shouldn't Hamilton have conceded his lead when he cut out the corner at the beginning of the race?
He really did miss out a lot of the circuit.

Given Lewis’ speed advantage he would’ve retaken the lead on a few laps anyway

 

[Piece]

I've digested yesterday's events overnight, and still feel the same.

I've no objection to Verstappen winning the World Championship, he is a worthy winner. It's certainly no fluke, a la Rosberg, Button and a few others. Over the course of the season, both drivers have been brilliant. Well done Max Verstappen, what happened yesterday was not his fault.

However, it was a farce. What is the role of the race director if not to enforce the rules and ensure sporting integrity? Sometimes, the race director and the stewards are faced with subjective issues and they make decisions that not everyone agrees with, sometimes those decisions are somewhat inconsistent, they're only human after all. Yesterday, though, there was no subjectivity to the rules as everyone understood them, the rule book was torn up and sporting integrity binned at the same time, in the interests of entertainment. That doesn't sit right with me. The race director should be impartial, ensuring that the rules are followed to the letter throughout the entire season, regardless of the circumstances of the race; emotion shouldn't be a factor in that person's decision making.

The sad thing though is that this is all being driven by Liberty's drive for entertainment and drama, which ultimately makes them money. Masi has delivered what they want and that will please them - they won't mind the ongoing furore as there's no such thing as bad publicity as far as they are concerned. They'll keep on running the sport like this as it suits them very nicely indeed.

Exactly this. The silly thing is that yes we all want the result to be done via a race, but contriving a last lap shoot out when one car is basically a sitting duck, just doesn't sit right. Surely race control would have know that. I'm all for entertainment but not at the behest of rule flexing and relying on an FIA rule that says the race director can do what he wants.

 

[Deleted member 29109]

Because the last 20 years have been utterly dire perhaps?

I'm very much the same, I never missed a race up until my mid 30s, then along came the one team dominance of Schumacher and now Hamilton, with a period of Red Bull thrown into the middle. There's no overtaking, it's unbelievably boring.

However with Lewis looking like losing this season, I've been tuned into the last 3 races, yesterday while another example of the genre, did at least produce the most exciting finish in 2 decades, and for that we can thank Massi for allowing them to race for that final lap. Edge of the seat stuff, brilliant viewing.

On the point of of no overtaking. This is simply not true. The stats show there has been more overtaking during this era of F1 than at almost any other time.