F1 2021

[Kennysarmy]

Exactly this. The silly thing is that yes we all want the result to be done via a race, but contriving a last lap shoot out when one car is basically a sitting duck, just doesn't sit right. Surely race control would have know that. I'm all for entertainment but not at the behest of rule flexing and relying on an FIA rule that says the race director can do what he wants.

They know it now, but my guess in the heat of the moment their brains departed their bodies!
Too much pressure from all sides led to a bad decision.

 

[Canary_Yellow]

Exactly this. The silly thing is that yes we all want the result to be done via a race, but contriving a last lap shoot out when one car is basically a sitting duck, just doesn't sit right. Surely race control would have know that. I'm all for entertainment but not at the behest of rule flexing and relying on an FIA rule that says the race director can do what he wants.

Absolutely, had the process in 48.12 been followed to the letter and that left 1 lap of racing to go, with Verstappen winning, I would have been gutted but that's the way the cookie crumbles.

48.12 would also have been followed to the letter at any other point, in any other race, across the whole season. The decision making should not be dependent upon the circumstances of the race. It's bonkers!

 

[Canary_Yellow]

They know it now, but my guess in the heat of the moment their brains departed their bodies!
Too much pressure from all sides led to a bad decision.

I think Masi has been under pressure from his bosses to make sure there is as much on track drama as possible across the whole season.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Exactly this. The silly thing is that yes we all want the result to be done via a race, but contriving a last lap shoot out when one car is basically a sitting duck, just doesn't sit right. Surely race control would have know that. I'm all for entertainment but not at the behest of rule flexing and relying on an FIA rule that says the race director can do what he wants.

The Sky team were talking about some “agreement” between the team and race control (before the race ) that the race needed to finish under green flag etc - and they suggested that RC was trying to get that to please everyone and have the cars racing over the line with the winner etc

I guess if the rolls were reversed Mercedes would have no issues with what happened and Red Bull complaining like mad

The whole radio talk surprised me a little about how much the team principals are trying to influence the director - Wolff begging for no safety car , Horner asking for the lapped cars to get out of the way etc

 

[Golfnut1957]

As far as I am aware, Mercedes have not made any statements on the matter, to that end, Red Bull haven't said a great deal either. I find that quite telling, and I am assuming that they are keeping their powder dry for what is to come.

 

[rksquire]

Max is champion, but have to say Lewis shaking his hand, and that of Horners, and not simply storming of the stage & throwing a strop (like Max the previous week) shows his character. Same with the pictures of Lewis's father later on.

But, not to pursue their appeal would be wrong. It isn't necessary to change the result, Mercedes should accept that's gone; but the purpose of progressing the appeal has to be so that F1 can put it's house in order. The race director's purpose is not to conduct a live event like it's the WWE or a soap opera episode. I completely get this year the drama has probably increased viewing figures but it has come at the cost of credibility. Having 2 well matched cars with 2 well matched drivers is fantastic; having fluid rules in place and a race director who's orchestrating things to extent he seemed capable of is not fantastic. An appeal will hopefully see a review of the rules, a review of the powers of the race director, an FIA scapegoat in the form of Masi, an exposure of Horner & Wolfe and the influence they tried to exert over said director and stewards, and ultimately a finding that the rules weren't followed due to misinterpretation / time constraints and the time pressure of other options not being available given the proximity to end of the race.

I'd heard commentators last night compare it with the 'Aguueerrrooooo!!!!' goal but that's not fair at all. Nobody asked QPR to get out of the way whilst at the same time making sure Wayne Rooney didn't have the appropriate footwear for the last few minutes (not that United actually could do anything about it) so it's not the same... maybe similar in terms of drama, but that's it.

 

[cliveb]

Something nobody has mentioned. Imagine the total s*** storm and finger-pointing there would have been if the safety car had been caused by an Alpha Tauri crashing. Lucky for Red Bull it was a Merc-powered car.

 

[Beezerk]

I heard a brief interview with MV on the radio this morning, he was thanking everyone but I don’t recall him mentioning his dad. Seemed a glaring omission to me.

 

[Foxholer]

Exactly this. The silly thing is that yes we all want the result to be done via a race, but contriving a last lap shoot out when one car is basically a sitting duck, just doesn't sit right. Surely race control would have know that. I'm all for entertainment but not at the behest of rule flexing and relying on an FIA rule that says the race director can do what he wants.

I trust you realise that the alternative (final lap under SC/allowing ALL lapped cars to reform at rear) was an equally foregone conclusion!

 

[Beedee]

I trust you realise that the alternative (final lap under SC/allowing ALL lapped cars to reform at rear) was an equally foregone conclusion!

But foregone conclusions that follow the rules are better than ones made up on the fly

 

[harpo_72]

Given Lewis’ speed advantage he would’ve retaken the lead on a few laps anyway

Exactly this, it had no relevance to the outcome

 

[Foxholer]

But foregone conclusions that follow the rules are better than ones made up on the fly

I agree! I have a feeling that the magnitude of THIS race affected some of the 'participants' too much. The previous 'finished under Safety' race surely set some sort of a precedent, even if the circumstances weren't absolutely the same.

 

[Deleted member 30522]

Max is champion, but have to say Lewis shaking his hand, and that of Horners, and not simply storming of the stage & throwing a strop (like Max the previous week) shows his character. Same with the pictures of Lewis's father later on.

Agreed, it's taken him a long time to grow up, I expected a sulk, it was very good to see that.

 

[Swango1980]

The Sky team were talking about some “agreement” between the team and race control (before the race ) that the race needed to finish under green flag etc - and they suggested that RC was trying to get that to please everyone and have the cars racing over the line with the winner etc

I guess if the rolls were reversed Mercedes would have no issues with what happened and Red Bull complaining like mad

The whole radio talk surprised me a little about how much the team principals are trying to influence the director - Wolff begging for no safety car , Horner asking for the lapped cars to get out of the way etc

I don't think anybody is disputing the fact that, ideally, you want the race to finish under Green Flag conditions. At any point in a race, and race during the season, you want the safety car brought in ASAP. Up to now, all lapped cars have been told to pass the safety car before race proceeds a lap later. However, the Race Director MAY also stop this happening, and just let the race proceed with the lapped cars in position. So, if Masi had done this, there could be little argument under the documented procedures. Maybe Mercedes would have complained it was done differently at other races if it had worked out badly for Lewis, but it was still within the regs.

Instead, what happened yesterday was a farce. It is interesting people are quick to say Max is a deserving champion. But, had the safety car never been required, Lewis would have won and I assume people would say he was a worthy champion? If the FIA had followed their own procedures, Lewis would have won, and I assume he would have been a worthy champion? So, basically, based on the FIA's actions, they have directly defined who is this years "deserving" champion. Had they been consistent, they'd have no concerns. Red Bull might have complained, but they always do.

 

[Piece]

I trust you realise that the alternative (final lap under SC/allowing ALL lapped cars to reform at rear) was an equally foregone conclusion!

Do you mean the race ending under SC?

 

[Canary_Yellow]

I trust you realise that the alternative (final lap under SC/allowing ALL lapped cars to reform at rear) was an equally foregone conclusion!

Not quite sure what your point is though?

If the suggestion is that the race should never be a foregone conclusion until the last lap, why bother with the other laps at all? Lets just reduce F1 to a one lap shoot out.

Even that would have been fairer than what actually happened though, because at least all cars would have had the same tyres.

 

[Golfnut1957]

I trust you realise that the alternative (final lap under SC/allowing ALL lapped cars to reform at rear) was an equally foregone conclusion!

But it wasn't the only alternative. The race director had the option to allow no lapped cars through, an option he was going to exercise which is why you heard Horner going ballistic on the radio. If he had continued with this option it would have given Hamilton a deserved advantage but also would have given Verstapen the opportunity to pass the five cars in front under blue flags, on new tyres, overtake Hamilton and win. How thrilling would that have been?

 

[Canary_Yellow]

But it wasn't the only alternative. The race director had the option to allow no lapped cars through, an option he was going to exercise which is why you heard Horner going ballistic on the radio. If he had continued with this option it would have given Hamilton a deserved advantage but also would have given Verstapen the opportunity to pass the five cars in front under blue flags, on new tyres, overtake Hamilton and win. How thrilling would that have been?

It would have been thrilling, but also completely impossible.

Hamilton would have gone flat out as soon as the safety car was gone and stretched the pack out. Verstappen may not have even cleared the 5 lapped cars in one lap, and even if he did, Hamilton would have been 3 or 4 seconds up the road.

 

[rksquire]

See Michael Masi has just completed the Champions League draw, without incident.....

 

[greenone]

It would have been thrilling, but also completely impossible.

Hamilton would have gone flat out as soon as the safety car was gone and stretched the pack out. Verstappen may not have even cleared the 5 lapped cars in one lap, and even if he did, Hamilton would have been 3 or 4 seconds up the road.

If it had been done properly verstappen would have been under pressure from sainz, as it was he had 2 back markers in the way that weren't allowed to unlap themselves