F1 2021
- Thread starter SaintHacker
- Start date
SaintHacker
Journeyman Pro
For me the Brazil one was worse, he just didn't bother turning in. Yesterday he tried to make the corner but the back end stepped out and he went sideways across the track. The stewards have been horribly inconsistent all season though so no real surprise.
He was an absolute idiot for the brake test though. In an F1 car just lifting off the throttle is an equivalent deceleration to a hard stop in a road car, so to let a car through you just need to move over and lift. He didn't, he went to the middle of the track and braked. Ridiculous, the fact his engineer came on and said 'we didn't need to do that Max' tells you all you need to know. He should have been punished far more than he was, but I can see why they didn't want to effect the outcome of the championship with penalties.
D
Deleted member 15344
Guest
Seen it now
I’m guessing there is the same videos for all the drivers over the years - is Max any different ?
Hamilton
Senna
Prost
Vettel
Schumacher
They have all gone down lines to try and gain an advantage- it’s funny seeing Vettel cry and complain when he was no different
And Hamiltons past is littered with incidents and history of crashes
Put some appear to paint Hamilton as a Saint
bobmac
Major Champion
I'm done
Swango1980
Well-known member
Well, I suspect there is at least one person in here with blinkers on, perhaps a guy who only recently watched his first full race in years.
Dando
Q-School Graduate
I think Lewis is a knob but the way Max has been driving this year has been appalling
Hamilton is no saint. However, Verstappen has acquired 7 penalty points on his racing licence in the last 12 months. That’s on top of all the other smaller penalties he’s got this season, e.g. the 5 sec and 10 sec penalty he got yesterday. And you’re defending someone with that driving record in one season
if you go and Google driver penalties for all the other drivers you will, hopefully, be suitably shocked.I do wonder just who has the blinkers on…
Canary_Yellow
Journeyman Pro
Hamilton is no saint. However, Verstappen has acquired 7 penalty points on his racing licence in the last 12 months. That’s on top of all the other smaller penalties he’s got this season, e.g. the 5 sec and 10 sec penalty he got yesterday. And you’re defending someone with that driving record in one season
I do wonder just who has the blinkers on…
Facts have no place in this discussion. Go and sit in the corner and think about what you’ve done. ?
D
Deleted member 15344
Guest
Hamilton is no saint. However, Verstappen has acquired 7 penalty points on his racing licence in the last 12 months. That’s on top of all the other smaller penalties he’s got this season, e.g. the 5 sec and 10 sec penalty he got yesterday. And you’re defending someone with that driving record in one season
I do wonder just who has the blinkers on…
https://wtf1.com/post/hamilton-is-now-only-one-reprimand-away-from-a-grid-penalty/
https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/f...-and-hands-mercedes-fine-4978614/4978614/amp/
https://the-race.com/formula-1/hamilton-slams-ridiculous-penalty-points-as-he-nears-ban/
Seems Hamilton picks up penalty points As well ?
Canary_Yellow
Journeyman Pro
Two of those links are for the same incident, an incident which did not result in Hamilton getting any penalty points.
Beezerk
Money List Winner
Wow ?
Swango1980
Well-known member
Probably not worth the effort, Liverpoolphil watched his first full race in years, and now he is an F1 Guru.
Pity he has completely missed the subject of this debate. People have been critical of Verstappen's driving, and yet he responds as if the subject of the debate is Hamilton.
I don’t doubt it but to the level of Verstappen? I’m very saddened to see you still defending the indefensible. Verstappen is in another league but you just won’t admit it. Why don’t you post up a little table showing drivers penalties side by side, and then try and defend Verstappen.
Cherry13
Head Pro
Hamilton received reprimands which are different. One for doing a practise start from the wrong place on the track, another for not coming back onto the track in the correct manner. You are comparing yellow cards for dissent with knee high tackles that threaten injury.
I said yday LH in my opinion had a nasty streak earlier in career, I didn’t and don’t need to debate the point and turn this thread into a back and forth on mine and swangos opinions. I still stand by my view that he did, and I’m sure massa fans, alonso fans and vettel fans would agree. One thing LH has never been though is a danger to others, and Max is firmly in that camp at the moment. Whether you believe LH has a past or not. Max is currently reckless.
Canary_Yellow
Journeyman Pro
D
Deleted member 15344
Guest
Someone highlighted about Verstappen having 7 ( believe 3 where from yesterday) in the 12 month period and pointing towards the sort of driver Verstappen
Hamilton at one stage had 10 in a 12 month period ( was reduced to 8 ) - he started the season on 6 himself and currently has 2
It’s not about defending Verstappen it’s more the apparent attitude from some ( just some ) that Hamilton is whiter than white when he has been and no doubt is far from that and has certainly been involved in his fair share of issues - but then so have all the best drivers in the past - how times would Senna or Schumacher be banned with a penalty point system
Canary_Yellow
Journeyman Pro
I disagree that Hamilton has a nasty streak. I don’t disagree that he was involved in a lot of silly incidents in the first 5 years or so of his career, particularly the end of his time at McLaren actually, but in my opinion not the types of things that call into question his integrity as a racer, rather things that called into question his decision making and maturity at the time of the incidents.
Verstappen was similar to Hamilton in that regard early in his career, but more recently, I think his driving has slipped below an acceptable standard in terms of his approach to risk / reward decision making. I hope Verstappen’s driving style matures with time because he is hugely talented, that is beyond question, I can’ t help but feel Horner and Red Bull are letting him down in that regard. Really, couldn’t he learn a huge amount from the way Hamilton has developed as a driver?
Foxholer
Blackballed
I believe that penalty (not merely a 'reprimand') was rescinded/changed to a 'team fine' when full circumstances of the incident were made available. Drivers/teams still need to appreciate the (safety) reasons for such penalties though. Accrued Points penalties, that can result in having to miss a race, seem to me to be an excellent way to 'moderate' driver approach/attitude.
MV seems, to me, to be 'aggressively defending' his position against a faster car and (perhaps) a better team. I had been hoping to see him outclass LH (who has certainly been 'no saint' in the past) and be ahead by enough points to let him ease up for the final race(s) and still become champion. Unfortunately, there's been a distinct lack of 'class' about his driving recently and I predict LH/Mercedes will carry the day in the final race. I hope MV learns - in the same way LH sems to have done - and F1 can maintain both excitement and safety!
Piece
Tour Winner
I've read all these posts and I don't think anyone on this thread is saying Hamilton is a saint. He is an aggressive racer, and always has been. Driving on the limit within the rules, almost all of the time. Max, however, has recently overstepped the mark more often and his driving can be considered potentially dangerous in certain situations. These are the opinions of people (on this thread) who have watched F1 for years, every race, not just the latest race because it has made juicy headlines. Hill has (diplomatically) called out Max, much to Horner's chagrin - you only had to see the frosty exchange yesterday.
I thought the Max undertake on the first corner at the last restart was superb, BTW.
Robster59
Tour Rookie
I'm really not sure if @Liverpoolphil really hates Hamilton or really loves Verstappen as he can't seem to see both sides of the equation.
An important part about racing such as this is respect for the other racers. And at the moment I am not seeing that in Verstappen. He seems to be racing with little thought of consequences, and is in the "win by any means" mindset. I am not denying he is fast, I am not denying that you have to make it tough to overtake, and also you have to be tough to overtake, but there are limits and Verstappen seems to be overstepping those limits on a regular occasion.
Of course we've seen this in the past. Senna and Prost clashing on first corners. Schumacher taking out Hill in the title decider in Australia in 1994. Both (to me) were blantantly designed to take the other off. None were punished. It doesn't mean they shouldn't be now.
We can all look back at incidents in the past. What needs to be addressed is the here and now.
An important part about racing such as this is respect for the other racers. And at the moment I am not seeing that in Verstappen. He seems to be racing with little thought of consequences, and is in the "win by any means" mindset. I am not denying he is fast, I am not denying that you have to make it tough to overtake, and also you have to be tough to overtake, but there are limits and Verstappen seems to be overstepping those limits on a regular occasion.
Of course we've seen this in the past. Senna and Prost clashing on first corners. Schumacher taking out Hill in the title decider in Australia in 1994. Both (to me) were blantantly designed to take the other off. None were punished. It doesn't mean they shouldn't be now.
We can all look back at incidents in the past. What needs to be addressed is the here and now.
