EU Referendum

Does the fact that the Germans, French, Dutch etc are so desperate for us to remain in not tell you something?

Just proves to me that we are a gravy train helping to subsidise the EU squanderfest.
 
Haven't really heard much from the continent except Marine Le Pen advocating Brexit.

What have the Germans, French and Dutch said?
 
jp5 said:
Haven't really heard much from the continent except Marine Le Pen advocating Brexit.

What have the Germans, French and Dutch said?
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The Dutch PM and Merkel have been quite vocal about us staying in.
 
CheltenhamHacker said:
Or they know that as part of the EU, we're all greater than the sum of our parts!
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If the EU lost our net contribution there would be problems raising enough money to make the substantial subsidies to countries like Poland. I fail to see how being part of such an undemocratic institution can make the parts greater, complete freedom to determine your destiny is what makes you greater.
 
SocketRocket said:
If the EU lost our net contribution there would be problems raising enough money to make the substantial subsidies to countries like Poland. I fail to see how being part of such an undemocratic institution can make the parts greater, complete freedom to determine your destiny is what makes you greater.
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Who do you think gets better agreements with suppliers. Tesco, or your local corner shop? Being part of a bigger entity has inherent benefits that doesn't exist in smaller replicas.

You have no freedom to determine your destiny. Nor do i. Nor does anyone outside of the 1% in Britain. And the ability to changes governments every 5 years does not change this in the slightest, other than in appearance. Not while there are unelected civil servants with significant power (you know, the ones we rile against in Brussels, only we have 5-6x as many)
 
Could those who are so keen on remaining give a reasoned argument as to why the EU requires to run two parliaments and can they justify the huge costs of moving MEPs and the hundreds of civil servants around between them both.
 
Old Skier said:
Could those who are so keen on remaining give a reasoned argument as to why the EU requires to run two parliaments and can they justify the huge costs of moving MEPs and the hundreds of civil servants around between them both.
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No not really, no one has ever said it is perfect and it indeed does need reforming. But my personal opinion is that we have a better chance of doing that from being in it and the benefits of membership of the EU outweigh the undoubted negatives it also brings.

But then again I have probably stated this already, much like everyone has made the same point at least 7 times in this thread.
 
Old Skier said:
Could those who are so keen on remaining give a reasoned argument as to why the EU requires to run two parliaments and can they justify the huge costs of moving MEPs and the hundreds of civil servants around between them both.
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Good point, I don't like that about it. May as well leave then.

On a similar point, my work canteen just served up a horrible meal for lunch. Suppose I'd better quit my job!
 
CheltenhamHacker said:
Who do you think gets better agreements with suppliers. Tesco, or your local corner shop? Being part of a bigger entity has inherent benefits that doesn't exist in smaller replicas.
Click to expand...

I would have thought being the 5th largest economy in the world and 2nd largest in Europe would put us in a similar position to 'Tesco' as opposed to your corner shop.
 
That speech was made after my question about what Merkel had said prior to today.... I think "not much" was the correct answer!
 
Have to have a little smile though, when it is said we stand more of a chance making changes whilst still in and at the bargaining table... Knowing absolutely full well bugger all, of any significance, has ever changed in this manner...
 
CheltenhamHacker said:
Good point, I don't like that about it. May as well leave then.

On a similar point, my work canteen just served up a horrible meal for lunch. Suppose I'd better quit my job!
Click to expand...

If your Company made you pay to work there you would probably be off quite sharpish and the Canteen meal would be forgot about.
 
CheltenhamHacker said:
Who do you think gets better agreements with suppliers. Tesco, or your local corner shop? Being part of a bigger entity has inherent benefits that doesn't exist in smaller replicas.

You have no freedom to determine your destiny. Nor do i. Nor does anyone outside of the 1% in Britain. And the ability to changes governments every 5 years does not change this in the slightest, other than in appearance. Not while there are unelected civil servants with significant power (you know, the ones we rile against in Brussels, only we have 5-6x as many)
Click to expand...

We are a little more than a corner shop on the World stage, I would say more of a Fortnum and Mason.
I am not quite as cynical as you regarding our democracy and we do have that power to change the Government of the day every five years, something not possible in the EU. If you are happy with things that way then good for you.
 
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