Rumpokid
Challenge Tour Pro
Lol.Fancy using a golf forum to ask such a question..Life way to short..Always 2 sides to these kind of stories also.
Employee Performance Improvement Plan
- Thread starter Lord Tyrion
- Start date
A golf forum containing lots of people who have managed staff and been through this experience before. I've received very helpful advice via here and through pm's. That is what forums can do if you ask the right question.
MadAdey
Money List Winner
LT, best advice anyone could give you and a employment lawyer would probably tell you the same is to be careful. People are saying about having an "off the record chat" but that can go wrong if the person feels like he is being harassed. If you need to chat with him then do it "on the record" and take an impartial 3rd party with you and give him the chance to take his own 3rd party with him. Make sure your concerns are discussed and give him a chance to have his say. Give him some kind of time frame to improve his performances. Ask him what he is having problems with and what you as his employer can do to help.
Don't go get yourself into a situation where he can run to a lawyer claiming harassment and you end up with an expensive court case. In this modern day world of where there's blame there's a claim, he could feel he is about to get fired so has nothing to lose by claiming you didn't deal with him in a fair and just manner.
Don't go get yourself into a situation where he can run to a lawyer claiming harassment and you end up with an expensive court case. In this modern day world of where there's blame there's a claim, he could feel he is about to get fired so has nothing to lose by claiming you didn't deal with him in a fair and just manner.
chrisd
Major Champion
I've spent several hours this week writing my answers to an employment tribunal case. As there is no fee to bring the case any more there is going to be a huge proliferation of chancers just giving it a go, as in the one I'm dealing with.
If you employ someone who just cant do the job properly then I guess the only way is to discover this early enough and get rid where possible. Harsh and uncaring but it's not worth the risk of legal action.
If you employ someone who just cant do the job properly then I guess the only way is to discover this early enough and get rid where possible. Harsh and uncaring but it's not worth the risk of legal action.
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I don't see protecting a business and the jobs of the rest of the employees as harsh and uncaring. Providing poor performance has been addressed at the outset with robust measures to retrain, redeploy and sympathy to any outside mitigating factors I can't see any harshness.
Of the 7 people I've moved on, in 30 years of managing, I remember each one with regret. In almost every case I attach some blame to myself for not finding the right interventions, training and motivations to turn an individual around before having to move them on.
There is absolutely no fun nor satisfaction from sitting across from someone at the final dismissal meeting knowing they have a mortgage/bills to pay and its you taking that away from them. Even when HR tell you that you've tried every option, and followed every step in the process, it doesn't make going to sleep on a night any easier.
Recruitment, training, PIP'ing and sacking is hugely expensive to a business, and any manager who looks to move someone on at the first sign of poor performance needs to look at sacking themselves first.
Crazyface
Tour Winner
Surely, if this employee is still within the 2 years of them starting the job you can just fire them, or have I missed some new legislation?
You don't just fire anyone. Even if someone is still in a probation period they have pretty much the same rights as someone who has been there many years. There still has to be documented evidence to dismiss.
SaintHacker
Journeyman Pro
Is that true? Not arguing as you clearly have far more knowledge and experience than me but i thought someone in a probation period could be shown the door with no notice or anything.
My belief is the same as Hobbit although I may be wrong. It also misses the point that I would actually like the person to succeed as that would save me from having to advertise, interview and re-train again. This step has a dual element to it 1/ get the employee I want, 2/ remove the employee legally and without comeback if 1 is not achievable. I genuinely would like 1 to work though and having such a structured and formal approach could well be the method to work. I have tried the arm around the shoulder plus other cajoling methods.
The 'good old days' of just sacking people are long gone. Paper trails, structure, procedure are all imperative now and anyone ignoring the change in times is setting themselves up for a tribunal that they are likely to lose on a technicality. You can't just be macho with employees any more.
An employee within the probation period, or even within the first 2 years, can't bring an unfair dismissal claim but can make a number of claims under other headings, e.g. discrimination, health & safety, lack of training In effect, the employer has to detail the reasons for dismissal just the same as they would for a long term employee and has to follow the same process for dismissal. And there has to be a notice period, typically 1 week during probation but that should be set out in the employee's contract. The employee can be asked to leave with immediate effect but still has to be paid for the notice period.
A lot of people assume that an employee has no rights during the probationary period... not true.
SaintHacker
Journeyman Pro
Thanks. Every days a school day, anmd well worth bearing in mind!
SocketRocket
Ryder Cup Winner
In such a case:
Have a meeting with the person and point out your concerns. Actively listen to what they say to you and consider if you are at fault in any way. If you are then make sure you rectify your own shortcomings and clarify how you will make these changes. If you consider the Employee is not performing their role correctly then explain what they are doing wrong and what they need to do to rectify the situation, ensure you have provided all the resources they need to achieve the desired output.
If this does not rectify the issue and you have reasonable proof that the Employee is not attempting to improve then follow the disciplinary procedure i.e. Verbal/Written Warnings.
Have a meeting with the person and point out your concerns. Actively listen to what they say to you and consider if you are at fault in any way. If you are then make sure you rectify your own shortcomings and clarify how you will make these changes. If you consider the Employee is not performing their role correctly then explain what they are doing wrong and what they need to do to rectify the situation, ensure you have provided all the resources they need to achieve the desired output.
If this does not rectify the issue and you have reasonable proof that the Employee is not attempting to improve then follow the disciplinary procedure i.e. Verbal/Written Warnings.
Bunkermagnet
Journeyman Pro
Might I suggest taking correct advice, and hope they or their fmaily and friends don’t visit golf forums?
I only make that comment out of genuine concern.
I only make that comment out of genuine concern.
I'll let you into a secret. I'm not really called Lord Tyrion, the picture is actually Peter Dinklage, actor, in the role of LT. Sshhhh, our secret.
No company name has been mentioned, no employee name has been mentioned.
Your point is sound but I am comfortable that no one will link this thread to the real situation or people.
BM, bit of a glib response whilst eating my toast, hope no offence was taken. We had a situation last year that was more delicate. I did not come on here regarding that, got legal advice and resolved the situation. This one is a situation I am trying to resolve positively if possible and I was looking for some direct experience of people to people examples. Many replies have been very helpful, I have also had pm's and a chat with a forumer which added to body of knowledge I have built up. The thread has been extremely useful.
I did not want to get pure legal advice as they will tell me how this works in a pure A, B, C way. I wanted real examples that go off on tangents. Legal advice is helpful for the procedure, I know what I need to do there if it comes to it, but that is not what I wanted at this point.
With regards to anyone linking me to my work and to this thread. Clearly possible but highly, highly unlikely. They would have to work very, very hard and I really don't see that happening, particularly knowing the person involved and their family. I am also comfortable with everything I have posted if it did come to that. I am looking for a positive outcome after all.
I did not want to get pure legal advice as they will tell me how this works in a pure A, B, C way. I wanted real examples that go off on tangents. Legal advice is helpful for the procedure, I know what I need to do there if it comes to it, but that is not what I wanted at this point.
With regards to anyone linking me to my work and to this thread. Clearly possible but highly, highly unlikely. They would have to work very, very hard and I really don't see that happening, particularly knowing the person involved and their family. I am also comfortable with everything I have posted if it did come to that. I am looking for a positive outcome after all.
Bunkermagnet
Journeyman Pro
LT...wasn’t looking to dig, was more out of friendly concern. I have seen forum posts undo real world matters before, that’s all.
LT...wasn’t looking to dig, was more out of friendly concern. I have seen forum posts undo real world matters before, that’s all.
No, I did understand which I why I put up the second post :thup:. Cheers.
Beezerk
Money List Winner
Hope it all works out ok for you Trevor
Ssshhhh, don't tell them I'm called Trevor. On here I'm Reg.
Bunkermagnet
Journeyman Pro
Ohhh.. I thought your name was Jasper.....
