During the round

[Deleted member 25172]

Apologies in advance for questions that I perhaps should be aware of already, but I cannot seem to find it in the rules book.

We played a club match the other day, and in one of the matches, an opponent during the round gripped his club, got a pen out and drew a line across the palm of the glove to give him a reference point on how to grip the club. Is this allowed? I’m thinking it sounds similar to draw a line on the ball, but perhaps it’s not allowed once the round has started?

Another thing which I came across while trying to find an answer to the above:

“A player may get a conforming ball to play from anyone else, including another player on the course.”

Is that an update on the rules that has come in after Tiger Woods win at Pebble beach when he was down to his last ball and would’ve been DQed if he couldn’t get the exact same type of ball from an opponent? Or is it stated somewhere else that if getting a ball from someone else, it also needs to be the same type, and not only a conforming ball?

Thanks

 

[Deleted member 15717]

the ball thing is quite easy. Only pros have a ‘one ball’ rule…so they can’t start with a Titleist and finish with a Taylormade for example. Can’t even go from pro V1 to pro v1x or white to yellow. They must start and finish with same manufacturer, model and colour (the number can obviously change).

the glove thing is fairly open, but rule 4.3a does have a line that using other equipment that gives an unfair advantage for hand position or grip pressure is not allowed. If the line was there before, and no-one was any the wiser what it was for then guess it’s fair game. If the player openly said it’s to help…then it’s probably not allowed

 

[Deleted member 25172]

the ball thing is quite easy. Only pros have a ‘one ball’ rule…so they can’t start with a Titleist and finish with a Taylormade for example. Can’t even go from pro V1 to pro v1x or white to yellow. They must start and finish with same manufacturer, model and colour (the number can obviously change).

the glove thing is fairly open, but rule 4.3a does have a line that using other equipment that gives an unfair advantage for hand position or grip pressure is not allowed. If the line was there before, and no-one was any the wiser what it was for then guess it’s fair game. If the player openly said it’s to help…then it’s probably not allowed

Reading more on this, even with the pro “one ball rule”, I still don’t understand it as apparently, playing with the wrong ball is a 2-stroke penalty per hole, and not a DQ.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/golf.com/news/russell-henley-8-stroke-penalty-one-ball-rule/amp/

The glove thing he did openly during the round and our captain pulled him up on it somewhat. He wasn’t sure on the ruling himself but asked the opponent if he knew that he could do that or not.

 

[Blue in Munich]

Equipment Rules
2. Gloves (Rule 4.3)
Gloves may be worn to assist the player in gripping the club, provided they are plain.

A “plain” glove must:

• consist of a fitted covering of the hand with a separate sheath or opening for each digit (fingers and thumb); and
• be made of smooth materials on the full palm and gripping surface of the digits.

A “plain” glove must not incorporate:

• material on the gripping surface or inside of the glove, the primary purpose of which is to provide padding or which has the effect of providing padding. Padding is defined as an area of glove material which is more than 0.025 inches (0.635 mm) thicker than the adjacent areas of the glove without the added material;

Note: Material may be added for wear resistance, moisture absorption or other functional purposes, provided it does not exceed the definition of padding (see above).

• straps to assist in preventing the club from slipping or to attach the hand to the club;
• any means of binding digits together;
• material on the glove that adheres to material on the grip;
• features, other than visual aids, designed to assist the player in placing his hands in a consistent and/or specific position on the grip;
• weight to assist the player in making a stroke;
• any feature that might restrict the movement of a joint; or
• any other feature that might assist the player in making a stroke or in his play.

So he can do it as the markings are only a visual aid. As to doing it during a round, I'm not sure but I can't see why he couldn't; if he had changed gloves during the round would you have objected?

 

[Deleted member 15717]

Key phrase in the article :

two different types of Titleist ProV1x

so he violated the one ball rule. its very much a local rule for pros. Amateurs can (and do) start and finish with different balls as some will pick them up in the woods etc.

if Tiger had run out of balls, he would have likely been DQ’d….though I think there is a time limit where you can replace if you don’t hold up play. Chances of getting the same ball would have been slim though

 

[jim8flog]

the ball thing is quite easy. Only pros have a ‘one ball’ rule…

And elite amateur events.

 

[Deleted member 25172]

Equipment Rules
2. Gloves (Rule 4.3)
Gloves may be worn to assist the player in gripping the club, provided they are plain.

A “plain” glove must:

• consist of a fitted covering of the hand with a separate sheath or opening for each digit (fingers and thumb); and
• be made of smooth materials on the full palm and gripping surface of the digits.

A “plain” glove must not incorporate:

• material on the gripping surface or inside of the glove, the primary purpose of which is to provide padding or which has the effect of providing padding. Padding is defined as an area of glove material which is more than 0.025 inches (0.635 mm) thicker than the adjacent areas of the glove without the added material;

Note: Material may be added for wear resistance, moisture absorption or other functional purposes, provided it does not exceed the definition of padding (see above).

• straps to assist in preventing the club from slipping or to attach the hand to the club;
• any means of binding digits together;
• material on the glove that adheres to material on the grip;
• features, other than visual aids, designed to assist the player in placing his hands in a consistent and/or specific position on the grip;
• weight to assist the player in making a stroke;
• any feature that might restrict the movement of a joint; or
• any other feature that might assist the player in making a stroke or in his play.

So he can do it as the markings are only a visual aid. As to doing it during a round, I'm not sure but I can't see why he couldn't; if he had changed gloves during the round would you have objected?

I wouldn’t have objected to him doing any of the above but only got interested as it was raised and I didn’t know or couldn’t find the rules on it.

Key phrase in the article :

two different types of Titleist ProV1x

so he violated the one ball rule. its very much a local rule for pros. Amateurs can (and do) start and finish with different balls as some will pick them up in the woods etc.

if Tiger had run out of balls, he would have likely been DQ’d….though I think there is a time limit where you can replace if you don’t hold up play. Chances of getting the same ball would have been slim though

I think you read my post wrong. I understand the rule as such that you cannot play different balls without being penalised. What I still don’t understand is why Tiger would’ve been DQed, as he could’ve (theoretically) asked another player for another ball in order to finish and then applied his 2-shot penalty based on:

“A player may get a conforming ball to play from anyone else, including another player on the course.”

Or is it the case here that the one ball rule superceeds this rule, and once you run out of your OWN balls, that’s it?

 

[jim8flog]

:

“A player may get a conforming ball to play from anyone else, including another player on the course.”

Or is it the case here that the one ball rule superceeds this rule, and once you run out of your OWN balls, that’s it?

Where there no one ball rule in play you may get any ball from another player.

Conforming means a ball that conforms to the Rules for Equipment which has a conforming ball list.

Players in an Elite Amateur or Pro event may have to declare which ball they are using and an official may check the ball is on the list. Some pros have been DQd for using a ball not on the list e.g. when a new model is brought out for pros to try and they should only be using it in practice rounds.

 

[Deleted member 25172]

Where there no one ball rule in play you may get any ball from another player.

Conforming means a ball that conforms to the Rules for Equipment which has a conforming ball list.

Players in an Elite Amateur or Pro event may have to declare which ball they are using and an official may check the ball is on the list. Some pros have been DQd for using a ball not on the list e.g. when a new model is brought out for pros to try and they should only be using it in practice rounds.

Again. I understand the one ball rule and that you can only play with the one and same ball, but the penalty for playing with the wrong ball (if it is a recognised and conforming ball) is a 2-shot penalty per hole it’s played with, and not DQ.

Or is it when the one ball rule is applied that you cannot ask a playing partner for a ball?

So the question is still, why was there talks of Tiger Woods have been DQed if he put his last ball in the water at Pebble Beach given:

1. playing with the wrong ball gives the player a 2-shot penalty per hole.

2. You can ask another player for a ball.

In this case the scenario would’ve been:

Tiger puts his last ball in the water.

Tiger asks his playing partner if he can get a ball from them.

Tiger knows it’s not the same ball as he has been playing.

Tiger still plays the hole with the ball he’s been given.

Tiger applies the 2-shot penalty for not playing the hole with the correct ball.

Why was there talks of him being DQed?

 

[Slab]

Just my thoughts

I thought that in a comp with one-ball rule in theory, Tiger could ask for the same ball he plays with from another player if he runs out (as we amateurs can ask for any conforming ball, tee-peg etc from another player) because like a tee-peg, a ball is not equipment so you won’t be borrowing equipment like a wedge

In reality they way I read the Tiger story was no one in the field was likely to have the same prototype ball as Tiger and therefore he wouldn’t be able to complete his round if he couldn’t source one pdq if he ran out and that’s what the DQ would’ve been for

 

[Deleted member 25172]

Just my thoughts

I thought that in a comp with one-ball rule in theory, Tiger could ask for the same ball he plays with from another player if he runs out (as we amateurs can ask for any conforming ball, tee-peg etc from another player) because like a tee-peg, a ball is not equipment so you won’t be borrowing equipment like a wedge

In reality they way I read the Tiger story was no one in the field was likely to have the same prototype ball as Tiger and therefore he wouldn’t be able to complete his round if he couldn’t source one pdq if he ran out and that’s what the DQ would’ve been for

But as with the link in my previous post on Henley, the penalty for playing the wrong ball is not DQ. The penalty for playing the wrong type of ball is 2-shots for each hole the player has played with the wrong ball. So Tiger should’ve been able to ask a playing partner for a ball from them knowing that he’d be playing the wrong ball, but only applied himself a 2-shot penalty.

Link again:

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/golf.com/news/russell-henley-8-stroke-penalty-one-ball-rule/amp/

 

[jim8flog]

Again. I understand the one ball rule and that you can only play with the one and same ball, but the penalty for playing with the wrong ball (if it is a recognised and conforming ball) is a 2-shot penalty per hole it’s played with, and not DQ.

Or is it when the one ball rule is applied that you cannot ask a playing partner for a ball?

So the question is still, why was there talks of Tiger Woods have been DQed if he put his last ball in the water at Pebble Beach given:

1. playing with the wrong ball gives the player a 2-shot penalty per hole.

2. You can ask another player for a ball.

In this case the scenario would’ve been:

Tiger puts his last ball in the water.

Tiger asks his playing partner if he can get a ball from them.

Tiger knows it’s not the same ball as he has been playing.

Tiger still plays the hole with the ball he’s been given.

Tiger applies the 2-shot penalty for not playing the hole with the correct ball.

Why was there talks of him being DQed?

You are correct in your 2 shot penalty per hole (maximum 8 shot penalty)

From Slab looks he may have been was playing a prototype ball which mat not have been on the conforming ball list and maybe it was this that needed to be established. However it was confirmed he was using Nike Tour Accuracy just a ball fairly new to the market which Tiger had been trialling prior to it being released.

 

[Deleted member 25172]

But as with the link in my previous post on Henley, the penalty for playing the wrong ball is not DQ. The penalty for playing the wrong type of ball is 2-shots for each hole the player has played with the wrong ball. So Tiger should’ve been able to ask a playing partner for a ball from them knowing that he’d be playing the wrong ball, but only applied himself a 2-shot penalty.

Link again:

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/golf.com/news/russell-henley-8-stroke-penalty-one-ball-rule/amp/

Or would the difference in this case be:

1. Unknowingly (Like in Henley’s case) play the wrong type of ball = 2 shot penalty per hole played.

2. Ask a playing partner for a ball knowingly it’s not the same type of ball = not allowed = DQ?

 

[Slab]

Or would the difference in this case be:

1. Unknowingly (Like in Henley’s case) play the wrong type of ball = 2 shot penalty per hole played.

2. Ask a playing partner for a ball knowingly it’s not the same type of ball = not allowed = DQ?

Yeah I guess like a lot of the rules the big difference is intent and to accidentally play a wrong (type) of ball is probably looked at/penalised quite differently to seeking out and deliberately playing the wrong type

If you cant borrow a matching ball you cant proceed

 

[Deleted member 15717]

Taken from an article about it….

"I would have been disqualified with no balls. If you run out of balls, you're out."

Technically, Woods could have borrowed a ball from a competitor provided it was the exact brand and type, which was unlikely given Woods had just put the newly manufactured ball into play that week. He also could have bought the balls from the golf shop, or sent someone to his hotel room to get more. Any of these choices would have resulted in a two-stroke penalty for an undue delay, likely leading to a double-digit number on the par-5 18th. This is all assuming he lost the second and final ball in his bag.

 

[rulefan]

It may be worth reading the Local Rule itself.

Model Local Rule G-4
“During an entire round, each ball at which the player makes a stroke must be the same brand and model as found in a single entry on the current List of Conforming Balls.

If a different brand and/or model is dropped, replaced or placed but has not yet been played, the player may correct the mistake by stopping use of that ball, without penalty, under Rule 14.5. The player must drop, replace or place a ball of the same brand and model as used at the start of the round.

When the player discovers he or she has played a ball in breach of this Local Rule, he or she must stop using that ball before playing from the next teeing area and complete the round with a ball of the same brand and model as used at the start of the round; otherwise the player is disqualified.

If the discovery is made during the play of a hole, the player may complete play of this hole with the ball played in breach or place a ball of the correct brand and model on the spot where the ball played in breach of this Local Rule was lifted from.

Penalty for Making a Stroke at a Ball in Breach of Local Rule:

The player gets the general penalty for each hole during which he or she is in breach of this Local Rule.”

 

[jim8flog]

It may be worth reading the Local Rule itself.

Model Local Rule G-4
“During an entire round, each ball at which the player makes a stroke must be the same brand and model as found in a single entry on the current List of Conforming Balls.

If a different brand and/or model is dropped, replaced or placed but has not yet been played, the player may correct the mistake by stopping use of that ball, without penalty, under Rule 14.5. The player must drop, replace or place a ball of the same brand and model as used at the start of the round.

When the player discovers he or she has played a ball in breach of this Local Rule, he or she must stop using that ball before playing from the next teeing area and complete the round with a ball of the same brand and model as used at the start of the round; otherwise the player is disqualified.

If the discovery is made during the play of a hole, the player may complete play of this hole with the ball played in breach or place a ball of the correct brand and model on the spot where the ball played in breach of this Local Rule was lifted from.

Penalty for Making a Stroke at a Ball in Breach of Local Rule:

The player gets the general penalty for each hole during which he or she is in breach of this Local Rule.”

Thanks for clearing it up.

 

[rulie]

Proving again that facts and data kill arguments!
And maybe the media report referenced was incorrect - have the announcers/media ever been wrong about Rules before?

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

It may be worth reading the Local Rule itself.

Model Local Rule G-4
“During an entire round, each ball at which the player makes a stroke must be the same brand and model as found in a single entry on the current List of Conforming Balls.

If a different brand and/or model is dropped, replaced or placed but has not yet been played, the player may correct the mistake by stopping use of that ball, without penalty, under Rule 14.5. The player must drop, replace or place a ball of the same brand and model as used at the start of the round.

When the player discovers he or she has played a ball in breach of this Local Rule, he or she must stop using that ball before playing from the next teeing area and complete the round with a ball of the same brand and model as used at the start of the round; otherwise the player is disqualified.

If the discovery is made during the play of a hole, the player may complete play of this hole with the ball played in breach or place a ball of the correct brand and model on the spot where the ball played in breach of this Local Rule was lifted from.

Penalty for Making a Stroke at a Ball in Breach of Local Rule:

The player gets the general penalty for each hole during which he or she is in breach of this Local Rule.”

Is this for us amateurs also...I’ve lost track...sorry

 

[rulefan]

Is this for us amateurs also...I’ve lost track...sorry

It is an option that any committee may introduce. But is only recommended for pro and elite amateur events. Although I've never seen it for the latter.