Driver swing help

[theeaglehunter]

Hi folks.

I watched my driver swing for the first time ever today after recording it on my phone at the range. And having never had a lesson on it or really given it any serious thought I was shocked at how poor a position I get in at the top with my elbow slumped down by my side. Especially when with my irons I get into a very good upright elbow position at the top. Basically has anyone got any advice on how I can develop my driver swing without simply thinking about swinging steeper? I certainly don't feel as flat as I evidently am (this video is the worst example, I am in a slightly better position in some others!) but should I start trying to radically change this so I swing into the same position I am in with my irons where my upper right arm is almost perfectly perpendicular to the ground, and then feel like I am radically dropping the club inside? Or should I be flatter at the top anyway and only drop it in a bit if that makes sense? I am hoping that making this change will give me the consistency I need off the tee as I currently hit one 'awful' drive per round which adds at least 3 shots to my score and frustrates me (It is often the difference between an 87 say or an 82 due to confidence issues it also causes) so with a better swing hopefully I will continue to hit the good drives I currently am and eliminate those occasional errant ones.

It is funny to think I was driving brilliantly on the range today yet I am asking for help! As I accept my swing is pretty poor- I do like the follow through / finish though! (the drive in the video was measured with my skycaddie and went 263 yards in total, with about 10 yards of draw and at a guess 30 yards of roll. My average distance over 25 drives was 235yards). Feel free to offer constructive criticism (I have already noticed quite a few faults myself so this could be fun with some people trained eyes on here!) or compliments (well yea, I can hope can't I ?) I would particularly appreciate any drills people may have to help me with some of my issues.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4GcQ-umVgC8

Thanks, and be kind Oh and sorry the video is at a strange angle but I had to balance my phone on my bag.

 

[HTL]

That is one flat swing! Looks good but your right knee needs to sty flexed and perhaps shorten your swing.

 

[SammmeBee]

What is your destructive drive then - duck hook left?

It's hard from that angle but you don't want to be any flatter me thinks....I think you need to work on your weight transfer too a bit - it's almost reverse pivoting (but not if you know what I mean)....

Nice swing though...

 

[birdieman]

Eagle, I don't think the flat swing is that big an issue, many good players have had a flat swing, however I think you are in a slight reverse pivot position near the top of the backswing with the weight still on the left side to a degree and your head ahead of the ball? Maybe its just the angle of the footage.
The head should be behind the ball with a driver swing I think.
Maybe try to get the weight fully on the right leg before you start the downswing.

 

[bobmac]

Eagle.
Before you go and change anything in your swing, look at your left wrist at the top of your backswing. It is bent over which points the clubface at the sky (closed) That will
bring the club face down closed at impact causing the hook.
Try and get your left wrist flat at the top and see if you lose the one bad shot per round. HTH

 

[HomerJSimpson]

I swing way inside and flat too as you may have seen recently and get my left wrist into a similar position. My stock bad shot is a snap hook.

I didn't think overall it was too bad and if you are getting a decent average with a controlled draw shape why worry about changing it.

 

[theeaglehunter]

Thanks very much for all the advice so far.

Firstly HTL- you are right there is a definite over swing there which is a problem I always get with the driver through trying to rip it!

Sameebee / Birdieman I too had noticed the almost reverse pivot and appreciate what you are saying, I was just finding today that by keeping more weight on my left side I was striking the ball better and getting good distance, but in the long run you are definitely right I need to amend this, so will add it to my list. Surprisingly I wasn't hitting down on the ball as a result, but next time out I will try and focus on a proper weight transfer. It definitely wasn't just the angle as I realised I was doing this at the time, although I'm confident I wasn't actually moving my weight backwards through the ball- I just hadn't moved as much weight onto my right side originally so had less to move through. If that makes sense.

Bobmac, the wrist issue is very interested and not something I had picked up on, so thanks for that. I think I will struggle with this but will definitely try and devote some serious practice to keeping my wrist 'flat'.

Homer the reason I want to change is that I am after more consistency. I have a tendency to either hook, or come over the top and slice the ball terribly on like one hole a round and the shots / lost balls this costs me is becoming frustrating especially when I am shooting low 80's (not at this moment in time but a month ago I was!) and would love to shoot in the 70's at some point. I just think getting a more textbook swing would be better for my long term development and will help with my quest for a more consistent, repeatable action off the tee.

 

[birdieman]

Bobmac, the wrist issue is very interested and not something I had picked up on, so thanks for that. I think I will struggle with this but will definitely try and devote some serious practice to keeping my wrist 'flat'.

That is something I need to watch too, cupped left wrist at top of backswing, I didn't associate that with hooking so thanks Bobmac for the tip.

 

[bobmac]

[quote
That is something I need to watch too, cupped left wrist at top of backswing, I didn't associate that with hooking so thanks Bobmac for the tip.

[/QUOTE]
Birdieman, when you say your wrist is cupped, which way do you mean?
The first picture is cupped which produces a fade or slice whereas the second picture is the one can produces a hook

Which one are you?

 

[The23rdman]

The most important thing to address is your setup and spine tilt. You need to set up with a little bit of tilt away from the target and hold it there. This is the solid bedrock of any good swing. Check out all the pro's from behind. It's very rarely mentioned but their tailbone always moves slightly towards the target. This indicates they've pivoted correctly and powerfully without losing their setup angles. so many of your other issues such as disconnection will disappear.

One other thing, and this is something I've only just truly had sink in after 10 years, work on one move at a time. I'll repeat it. Work on one move at a time. Work on that one aspect of your swing until you completely own it. My pro says its the difference between improving and floundering around forever. you have to take a systematic approach to improvement.

 

[birdieman]

[quote
That is something I need to watch too, cupped left wrist at top of backswing, I didn't associate that with hooking so thanks Bobmac for the tip.

Birdieman, when you say your wrist is cupped, which way do you mean?
The first picture is cupped which produces a fade or slice whereas the second picture is the one can produces a hook

Which one are you?

[/QUOTE]

I am the first one a little, certainly not the second (Sergio G?) so it doesn't seem the wrist thing is anything to do with me pull hooking reasonably often?
My problem shot is always left but that is down to poorish hip rotation (sliding hips instead of rotating on downswing) according to the pro I saw last year.
I'd need to get a film of swing on here but couldn't face the slaughter!

 

[The23rdman]

The jury is out on whether a flat or cupped wrist is "better". It really depends on your other swing characteristics. Many of the very best ball strikers played with a cupped wrist. The rotary wing pattern I'm learning with my pro relies on heavily opening up on the backswing and then hitting the ball with your pivot action and passive arms. If you do this you can have as cupped a wrist as you like because physics will slam the clubface shut at impact. This is how Hogan played the game.