Draw or Fade flight trajectory?

[Yosser]

I’m working on driver consistency, mainly trying to eliminate the dreaded fade/slice and reading the forum it seems a common problem. Anyway the Pro has me working on trying to draw the ball which seems reasonably comfortable with the irons especially the mid irons, not so with longer irons but even that was going quite well by the end of the lesson. We’ve slowed everything down with the woods/driver to try to recreate the tempo of the irons, starting with half swings and even reducing the length of swing for full shots – it’s been noted a few times that I do not need a full swing or wrist break as this is when I lose control.

I have been able to draw the ball with the driver albeit inconsistently but I’m unconvinced about the ball flight which seems to have a much lower, more “punchy” flight and sometimes it looks like a hook to me due to the amount of draw introduced but the Pro seemed to think it ok at this stage. Now a slice is destructive due to the side spin but also the backspin component makes the ball climb and arguably has as much effect on distance and direction. So is the opposite true of a draw in that I should expect a lower ball flight due to there being less or no backspin but still with “draw” spin? Do players who have shot shaping abilities have to use a higher lofted club when drawing to cater for this or is it a technical issue for me in that I am de-lofting and possibly putting top spin on the ball.

 

[Stuey01]

Draw spin and fade spin are both back spin. They are just off axis in different directions.
You are not putting topspin on the ball I guarantee it.

 

[Foxholer]

Getting the right amount of spin is the key!

Backspin is required to keep the ball in the air. Too little and the ball simply drops; too much though and it climbs too much - balloons.

As stated, slice spin and draw spin differ in the axis of the spin. This axis can be considered as 2 (vertical and horizontal/Backspin and +/-Sidespin) components - which is how Launch Monitors tend to show it. My understanding is that shots with Draw spin tend to have less overall spin than equivalent Fade oriented shots, so roll further.

 

[Stuey01]

My understanding is that shots with Draw spin tend to have less overall spin than equivalent Fade oriented shots, so roll further.

Agree.
Also often carry further, as many players have too much spin (note: many, not all players)

 

[Jack_bfc]

As most of us high HC's I have/had a natural fade/slice with my driver.

I recently tried setting up to draw the ball. This seems to have strightened up my drive, subsequently adding some decent distance.

Last night I hit most fairways and added a good 20 yards to most drives.. Not one slice. Still got some right to left which I,m sure could be corrected but I,m OK for now

 

[Yosser]

Getting the right amount of spin is the key!

Backspin is required to keep the ball in the air. Too little and the ball simply drops; too much though and it climbs too much - balloons.

As stated, slice spin and draw spin differ in the axis of the spin. This axis can be considered as 2 (vertical and horizontal/Backspin and +/-Sidespin) components - which is how Launch Monitors tend to show it. My understanding is that shots with Draw spin tend to have less overall spin than equivalent Fade oriented shots, so roll further.

Yeh, I can identify with too much backspin and the ball climbs and stalls, but too little and it simply drops? I can't see that to be honest, surely top spin forces in down too quickly. As an ex-footballer my Pro is trying to explain this to me as if I were taking a corner, right-footed if I want to move the ball right to left, I use the inner part of the foot. Conversely outer part for a left to right, both have effects on the flight and distance. But if I hit the ball out of the laces ie. no spin, the ball is straighter and stays in the air longer.

 

[Yosser]

As most of us high HC's I have/had a natural fade/slice with my driver.

I recently tried setting up to draw the ball. This seems to have strightened up my drive, subsequently adding some decent distance.

Last night I hit most fairways and added a good 20 yards to most drives.. Not one slice. Still got some right to left which I,m sure could be corrected but I,m OK for now

Long term I'm not too sure where I'm going with this as I don't want every shot to be a draw, I just want staright, which is where I'm upto on my mid to short irons probably due to me finding it easier to swing through a steeper plane. I think the Pro is just trying to teach me clubface awareness and hopefully it will become more natural and instinctive. I know I'm probably over thinking some of this (as he keeps telling me) but you still have to get some of the mechanics clear in your mind before you can apply it.

 

[Foxholer]

Yeh, I can identify with too much backspin and the ball climbs and stalls, but too little and it simply drops? I can't see that to be honest, surely top spin forces in down too quickly. As an ex-footballer my Pro is trying to explain this to me as if I were taking a corner, right-footed if I want to move the ball right to left, I use the inner part of the foot. Conversely outer part for a left to right, both have effects on the flight and distance. But if I hit the ball out of the laces ie. no spin, the ball is straighter and stays in the air longer.

Check out the Magnus Effect!

Clubheads are designed to impart backspin. As stated, you don't get topspin - except from a severe 'top'! Even the longest hitters are getting something around 1500-1800rpm of backspin - that's 25-30 revs per second backspin!

There is a significant difference between the sizes and speeds of a Football and a Golf ball, while the fluid through which both move (air) is constant. That has a significant effect on the overall flight

Up to a certain speed, a plane's wing actually creates drag/push down, but over a certain speed it creates lift.

 

[Yosser]

Check out the Magnus Effect!

Clubheads are designed to impart backspin. As stated, you don't get topspin - except from a severe 'top'! Even the longest hitters are getting something around 1500-1800rpm of backspin - that's 25-30 revs per second backspin!

There is a significant difference between the sizes and speeds of a Football and a Golf ball, while the fluid through which both move (air) is constant. That has a significant effect on the overall flight

Up to a certain speed, a plane's wing actually creates drag/push down, but over a certain speed it creates lift.

Right "Magnus Effect", from wiki:-"The curved path of a golf ball known as slice or hook is due largely to the ball's spinning motion (about its vertical axis) and the Magnus effect, causing a horizontal force that moves the ball from a straight-line in its trajectory.[SUP][15][/SUP] Back-spin (upper surface rotating backwards from the direction of movement) on a golf ball causes a vertical force that counteracts the force of gravity slightly, and enables the ball to remain airborne a little longer than it would were the ball not spinning: this allows the ball to travel farther than a non-spinning (about its horizontal axis) ball."

Yes, I think the football analogy maybe an over simplification and the last thing you are looking for is backspin on a football most of the time. With this draw shot being lower I'm thinking its down to de-lofting so I guess my hands are more in front of the ball at impact, which isn't necessarily a bad thing. I think a top would end up as a duck hook, which isn't really what I'm asking about, I'm asking if people expect a lower flight with a draw with the same club.

 

[USER1999]

Its possible to hit a low fade, or a high draw. It's up to you how high you hit it.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

I'm actually trying to hit a fade intentionally now instead of the draw. Finding it is becoming easier to control and better for the way I'm swinging. Still got the left in there unfortunately

 

[Yosser]

I'm actually trying to hit a fade intentionally now instead of the draw. Finding it is becoming easier to control and better for the way I'm swinging. Still got the left in there unfortunately

Have you always hit it left? I assume you mean draw? I did say to my Pro at the top of the lesson that I was actually happy with my iron play with clubs like the 7i coming out of the middle of the bat and straight, my 4i was fading but that's pretty straight since moving the ball forward in the stance. I have actually played to that 4i fade on a couple of holes to chase into a left to right green. 5w and 4h are pretty good, just the driver, probably been thrashing at it too much.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Have you always hit it left? I assume you mean draw? I did say to my Pro at the top of the lesson that I was actually happy with my iron play with clubs like the 7i coming out of the middle of the bat and straight, my 4i was fading but that's pretty straight since moving the ball forward in the stance. I have actually played to that 4i fade on a couple of holes to chase into a left to right green. 5w and 4h are pretty good, just the driver, probably been thrashing at it too much.

Always played with a draw but the changes I've made over the winter is better suited to a fade. Want to end up being able to hit both at will and with control.