Do you use a range finder/DMD?

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

This is nonsense.

Good well argued conclusion.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

You would have to ban stroke savers, yardage markers on course and caddies from competitions as well if you want to be consistent as they also remove uncertainty about how far you are from certain points of the course e.g. the middle of the green.

How many times have I read on these forums how unreliable such distance aids are? - Indeed oft cited as the rationale for getting a DMD. Besides - as I have said - I would only not allow them in Club Competitions when everyone is in exactly the same boat when it comes to distance using on-course distance induicators and effect of flag position etc.

 

[mab]

I love it when I raise my opposition to DMDs (in club competitions) and all sorts of comparisons are thrown up - as they always are - supported by 'if I can use this then why can't I use that' sort of arguments - which get nowhere with me as I'm not talking about this - I'm talking about that

I'm not that bothered about the impact of all other mod cons, trolleys, new club technology, new ball technology, new shoes - new underpants technology. I also consider affordability considerations out of scope of what I consider to be a discussion on principal. I always simply talk about technology that can reduce significantly one very important aspect of playing golf - possibly THE most important aspect - uncertainty. And then in the context of uncertainty - very crucially our uncertainty around distance. Understanding what golf course architects try to do to fool your senses, and then understanding and mastering your golfing uncertainties are in my view absolutely core to playing the game.

But I did say I wasn't going to get involved. As the poll shows I am in a small minority amongst golfers here and probably everywhere. But I will not drop my objections and will continue to lobby for their use being banned in Club Competitions.

This is nonsense as well.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

This is nonsense as well.

And this also fails miserably on all grounds as an argument

 

[full_throttle]

As per title, do you own a rangefinder? If so, why? If you don't, why is that? And why would you consider or not consider getting one?

Yes.

Find it useful fo distances to carry hazards.

Originally had a skycaddie sg3 but changed to a Gamin Approach.

 

[ger147]

How many times have I read on these forums how unreliable such distance aids are? - Indeed oft cited as the rationale for getting a DMD. Besides - as I have said - I would only not allow them in Club Competitions when everyone is in exactly the same boat when it comes to distance using on-course distance induicators and effect of flag position etc.

About the same number of times I've read that GPS devices are unreliable.

So your argument is actually nothing to do with removing uncertainty at all then? And has again returned to everyone being in the same boat? Everyone IS in the same boat - if the LR rule allows it, you can use one in comps. If not, you can't.

If you don't like it, you are free to hold that opinion but please stop talking rubbish like it being about uncertainty - it's not. It's simply that you don't like DMD's.

 

[mab]

Good well argued conclusion.

Your argument centres on uncertainty.

Uncertainty always remains as there is skill in understanding how the elements, terrain, etc. may require that you alter your shot in order to hit the ball your desired distance.

Course architecture influencing your perception of distance to the pin? Come on.

Go to the nearest marker and pace out to your ball to remove the uncertainty. Then, assuming your eyes are good enough, calculate how far from the front or middle of green the pin is. Oh, wait, not everyone's eyes are comparably good... I call foul on those with 20:20 vision.

The rangefinder removes uncertainty from the distance you are from the pin. It is then your golfing skill that kicks in to determine whether or not you are able to hit the ball that distance.

 

[wheyward]

I use a Bushnell, and bought mine after playing with some better players at my club whose level of golf I aspire to.

I always used to be a fan of course planners and will usually still buy one if I'm playing away at somewhere that warrants a memento other than a terrible score card, but I like the security that I get with my range finder.

'If you're going to play safe, play safe!' An old playing partner of mine told me this whilst we played in a better ball format comp round the Brabazon, whilst I didn't have a Bushnell at the time, this is now one of my main uses for it, It doesn't take me long to latch onto a copse, bunker or pond and it gives me the confidence to strike my 3 wood or driver, knowing that a decent swing should avoid the trouble on my target line.

Secondly, I was lucky enough to enjoy a round in Spain last month where all of the yardages were in meters... Nightmare!! I had been advised to take my Bushnell with me and in the circumstances it was a godsend! I plotted my way round the course and shot a gross 78 (par being 72) including back to back to back birdies. Playing off of 12, I think its fair to say this would not have been possible without my Bushnell.

In short, an invaluable piece of kit when used correctly, however I rarely need to use it round my own trek as I would like to think that I know where I'm going after 7 years!

 

[blackpuddinmonster]

Not sure from this if you're pro or anti phone-based DMDs, but my understanding of the the R&A flowchart (having had the issue come up at committee) was that there was no breach of the local rule if:

1) The app itself can't measure anything other than distance (which they can't - not seen a phone yet that can itself measure temperature or wind speed).
2) Other information (temp, wind, etc) was only available via an external web-based app.

The other thing this threw up was the fact that some electric trolleys (motocaddy?) have thermometers built in. How do these stand in relation to rule 14-3??

Thats good , because i'am completely ambivalent as to their use.
I believe all smart phones have a built in compass?
I've read somewhere, probably here, that the only conforming phone is the i-phone 3g, but not the 3gs.
Reguarding the trolley i haven't got a scooby.

 

[Kellfire]

Yes I use a DMD and have done since I was nothing more than a 28+ hacker. Why? At first it was an excellent tool to determine my distances as I improved. It helped me to become better at judging distances by eye, too. Now it helps me select a club and when something goes wrong, I know it was me and not the club. I feel more confident when stepping up to the ball and we all know what it's like to play golf when you aren't confident.

 

[NWJocko]

I love it when I raise my opposition to DMDs (in club competitions) and all sorts of comparisons are thrown up - as they always are - supported by 'if I can use this then why can't I use that' sort of arguments - which get nowhere with me as I'm not talking about this - I'm talking about that

I'm not that bothered about the impact of all other mod cons, trolleys, new club technology, new ball technology, new shoes - new underpants technology. I also consider affordability considerations out of scope of what I consider to be a discussion on principal. I always simply talk about technology that can reduce significantly one very important aspect of playing golf - possibly THE most important aspect - uncertainty. And then in the context of uncertainty - very crucially our uncertainty around distance. Understanding what golf course architects try to do to fool your senses, and then understanding and mastering your golfing uncertainties are in my view absolutely core to playing the game.
But I did say I wasn't going to get involved. As the poll shows I am in a small minority amongst golfers here and probably everywhere. But I will not drop my objections and will continue to lobby for their use being banned in Club Competitions.

If you're stood next to a 150 yard marker how is the architect fooling your senses?

A couple of genuine questions

1. Why do you lobby for them to be banned in competition and do you realise how futile it is?

2. Do you live in a constant state of outrage about everything?!


Edited to add, yes I use a GPS although only this year. Very useful to have, make life much easier and probably an advantage but, as they are available to everyone, certainly not an unfair advantage.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Your argument centres on uncertainty.

Uncertainty always remains as there is skill in understanding how the elements, terrain, etc. may require that you alter your shot in order to hit the ball your desired distance.

Course architecture influencing your perception of distance to the pin? Come on.

Go to the nearest marker and pace out to your ball to remove the uncertainty. Then, assuming your eyes are good enough, calculate how far from the front or middle of green the pin is. Oh, wait, not everyone's eyes are comparably good... I call foul on those with 20:20 vision.

The rangefinder removes uncertainty from the distance you are from the pin. It is then your golfing skill that kicks in to determine whether or not you are able to hit the ball that distance.

Indeed - golf is full of uncertainty

And you don't think golf course architects try and use the terrain or create a landscape that will try and 'fool' the golfer in his assessment of distance, elevation etc? Oh well.

And we know course distance markers can be notoriously inaccurate - though where you'd find one on the fairway adjact to the one you are playing I don't know. Anyway.

So you agree that DMDs reduce uncertainty in your decision making process and hence in your shot.

And lest we be mistaken - I am not against DMD/GPS devices per se - in fact I think they can be very useful. I just don't think they should be allowed in closed (i.e. members only) club competitions. Nothing more than that.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

If you're stood next to a 150 yard marker how is the architect fooling your senses?

A couple of genuine questions

1. Why do you lobby for them to be banned in competition and do you realise how futile it is?

2. Do you live in a constant state of outrage about everything?!


Edited to add, yes I use a GPS although only this year. Very useful to have, make life much easier and probably an advantage but, as they are available to everyone, certainly not an unfair advantage.

They may be available - but all players may not be in a position to be able to acquire/use them.

But again - all I am saying is that in a closed club competition they should not be allowed. Anyone without one is at a potential disadvantage - IMO. Non-users shold not feel forced to make use of a DMD for the playing field to be level as far as distance estimation is concerned - just because others want to use one.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

I have got a Golf Buddy Tour GPS and a Bushnell V3 Tour

Excellent bits of kit that have helped my game no end

Some use them far too often

The Europro Tour now allows them during comp play and the pros uses them to make out their distance book during a practise round. Essential bits of kit for the pro's.

 

[ColchesterFC]

Indeed - golf is full of uncertainty
And lest we be mistaken - I am not against DMD/GPS devices per se - in fact I think they can be very useful. I just don't think they should be allowed in closed (i.e. members only) club competitions. Nothing more than that.

But going back to your "unfair advantage" argument from earlier, if DMD/GPS devices were banned in closed competitions it would give an unfair advantage to someone who had been a member of the club for 20 years as opposed to a member in their first year who had only played the course a handful of times. A person with 20 years of knowledge of the course will know a lot more about distances or what shot to play than the new member.

 

[Matty]

I use a Golf Buddy Tour. I have found I am much more confident in club selection and perhaps a little bit faster as a player as a result. If all players gained the same then I don't think that would be a bad thing for pace of play.

 

[One Planer]

I use a Golf Buddy Tour. I have found I am much more confident in club selection and perhaps a little bit faster as a player as a result. If all players gained the same then I don't think that would be a bad thing for pace of play.

Hand them out on tour. Those guys could do with speeding up a little :mad.

 

[mab]

Indeed - golf is full of uncertainty

And you don't think golf course architects try and use the terrain or create a landscape that will try and 'fool' the golfer in his assessment of distance, elevation etc? Oh well.

And we know course distance markers can be notoriously inaccurate - though where you'd find one on the fairway adjact to the one you are playing I don't know. Anyway.

So you agree that DMDs reduce uncertainty in your decision making process and hence in your shot.

And lest we be mistaken - I am not against DMD/GPS devices per se - in fact I think they can be very useful. I just don't think they should be allowed in closed (i.e. members only) club competitions. Nothing more than that.

I fundamentally disagree with your position on this.

DMDs actually level the playing field by removing the guesswork... yes, guesswork... out of determining distances. Golfers then use true golfing skill to hit the ball their desired distance.

Not allowing DMDs in competition actually favours those who know the course better, those with better eyesight coupled with better distance and depth perception, etc.

Why don't we go the whole way and force those with poor eyesight to play in their own competitions during Sunday afternoon twilight hours in Winter with their new fangled technology helping them to assess distance.

Crazy.

 

[Kellfire]

Swingitlikehogan - the only natural progression from your stance is that you would ban caddies from the professional game downwards and also you wouldn't allow the professionals to play practice rounds on the week's course or take notes.

Right?

 

[ColchesterFC]

They may be available - but all players may not be in a position to be able to acquire/use them.
But again - all I am saying is that in a closed club competition they should not be allowed. Anyone without one is at a potential disadvantage - IMO. Non-users shold not feel forced to make use of a DMD for the playing field to be level as far as distance estimation is concerned - just because others want to use one.

Again absolute nonsense. They are available to all players that want to use one. They aren't sold in a mystical shop in Diagon Alley and you don't have to go and see Harry Potter to get a secret password to go there. Just pop into any American Golf or have a look online. I don't see any reason why any player is not able to acquire/use on if they choose to do so. As we aren't talking about being able to afford one on your principal earlier what other reasons are there that someone couldn't have one/use one?