Do premium/urethane balls really benefit *everyone*??

[Orikoru]

I'm posting this in Ask The Experts rather than The Lounge as I'm hoping for some scientific basis in the discussion rather than people's opinions and feelings really. Or at least a bit of both.

TXG on YouTube did a review of the Inesis 900 ball - at the end of the review they basically said every golfer would benefit from using a premium urethane ball, and that balls like this make it more affordable to do so, and so on. I made a comment saying surely a ball that spins more will do so horizontally as well as vertically, making it move further offline on a slice for example? So any benefit would be outweighed by that negative for me - which is why I play a low spinning ball (and for distance as well).

They replied to my comment and said "No a lower spin ball does not go straighter, that’s a myth. As for your short game that’s a personal choice, but not having the option for spin will limit your game."

I found this interesting. How can it be true that a ball can spin more on the vertical axis but not on the horizontal axis? Can it be true that premium balls are universally better for every golfer? Given that all my greenside chipping is mostly chip and runs with an 8 iron or PW, what benefit would I receive by using a urethane ball? "The option for spin" as they call it - being off 16 and not the best ball-striker I figure I don't have this option whichever ball I use.

I have some of the Inesis 900s that they were reviewing, and I didn't like them, one of the reasons was that I really felt they spin more offline on tee shots than a Velocity does. From what TXG are saying, I obviously imagined this or it was coincidence. I also felt they didn't go as far as the Velocity, which I feel might be more true since the Velocity is a distance ball first and foremost. But the compression of each ball I think is similar.

So is it true? Everyone would play better with a premium ball?

 

[Huwey12]

I'm posting this in Ask The Experts rather than The Lounge as I'm hoping for some scientific basis in the discussion rather than people's opinions and feelings really. Or at least a bit of both.

TXG on YouTube did a review of the Inesis 900 ball - at the end of the review they basically said every golfer would benefit from using a premium urethane ball, and that balls like this make it more affordable to do so, and so on. I made a comment saying surely a ball that spins more will do so horizontally as well as vertically, making it move further offline on a slice for example? So any benefit would be outweighed by that negative for me - which is why I play a low spinning ball (and for distance as well).

They replied to my comment and said "No a lower spin ball does not go straighter, that’s a myth. As for your short game that’s a personal choice, but not having the option for spin will limit your game."

I found this interesting. How can it be true that a ball can spin more on the vertical axis but not on the horizontal axis? Can it be true that premium balls are universally better for every golfer? Given that all my greenside chipping is mostly chip and runs with an 8 iron or PW, what benefit would I receive by using a urethane ball? "The option for spin" as they call it - being off 16 and not the best ball-striker I figure I don't have this option whichever ball I use.

I have some of the Inesis 900s that they were reviewing, and I didn't like them, one of the reasons was that I really felt they spin more offline on tee shots than a Velocity does. From what TXG are saying, I obviously imagined this or it was coincidence. I also felt they didn't go as far as the Velocity, which I feel might be more true since the Velocity is a distance ball first and foremost. But the compression of each ball I think is similar.

So is it true? Everyone would play better with a premium ball?

I don’t, a Dunlop will slice oob just as easy. The only benefit I find is that they do stop quicker on approach shots to the green and a better feel when putting

 

[Orikoru]

I don’t, a Dunlop will slice oob just as easy. The only benefit I find is that they do stop quicker on approach shots to the green and a better feel when putting

If they stop too quickly I'd have to go up a club, I rely on that roll for distance, haha.

 

[Huwey12]

Exactly many times when the greens are receptive I’ve had to change to a distance ball when I need more roll

 

[jim8flog]

Golf balls are all about compromise
Buy a 2 piece distance ball and it goes longer with any greenside control
Buy a 2 piece Spin ball and you lose distance because it has the same level of spin relatively with all clubs
Generally buy a 3 or more piece ball and it is designed to reduce some of this compromise ie. spins less (relatively) off a flat face club and spins more off a lofted face club.

Most premium 3 piece balls have urethane or similar outer covers. The use of urethane as opposed to the early versions using Surlyn (as still found in some cheaper 3 piece balls) enables the outer cover to be much thinner and more responsive.

Why does the ball spin more on the vertical axis rather than the horizontal axis - very much comes down to dimple design and compression of the ball. There will be more energy going in to the ball to propel it forward than there will be to propel it sideways.

 

[robinthehood]

A ball can't have backspin and side spin, just a spin axis

And to be fair the stop i get with a mid range ball from distance is pretty much the same as a premium, once you get further out , the biggest influence is loft rather than the ball.

 

[chrisd]

A ball can't have backspin and side spin, just a spin axis

And to be fair the stop i get with a mid range ball from distance is pretty much the same as a premium, once you get further out , the biggest influence is loft rather than the ball.

I tend to use better balls but you're spot on as far as I understand.

A golf ball only spins backwards as far I believe, but if hit where the backspin is not upright then the movement, either left or right is down to tilting of the axis of spin. It could of course be that the movement of the axis is deliberate to achieve fade or draw but is usually due to slicing or hooking. I ?

 

[Orikoru]

A ball can't have backspin and side spin, just a spin axis

And to be fair the stop i get with a mid range ball from distance is pretty much the same as a premium, once you get further out , the biggest influence is loft rather than the ball.

Right, but to me, that sounds like it means a ball that spins more will spin more in any direction. But the TXG guys say that's not the case. A ProV1 will spin more than a Velocity on the vertical axis, but will spin the same amount on the horizontal axis. How does that make sense? How does it know?

 

[Robster59]

What is this strange thing "backspin" of which you speak?

I have to say I've bought the Inesis Tour 900 and like them. I like to pay a better ball but don't like to play silly money for them. Did it benefits me? Probably more mentally than anything else.

 

[robinthehood]

Right, but to me, that sounds like it means a ball that spins more will spin more in any direction. But the TXG guys say that's not the case. A ProV1 will spin more than a Velocity on the vertical axis, but will spin the same amount on the horizontal axis. How does that make sense? How does it know?

It just has back spin that's all. And then club path, face angle etc cause the axis to title one way or the other . Giving you draw , fade, slice and all that.

 

[Deleted Member 1156]

I think the biggest deciding factor in ball choice is ego. Good players don't want to be seen teeing it up with a Pinnacle or TopFlite although if they are good enough they can allow for the differences that ball makes such as less spin off wedges etc. For county matches we are given a choice of Pro V1 or Pro V1x but we have one guy that will only play with AD333's and he is off either scratch or +1.

 

[Orikoru]

I think the biggest deciding factor in ball choice is ego. Good players don't want to be seen teeing it up with a Pinnacle or TopFlite although if they are good enough they can allow for the differences that ball makes such as less spin off wedges etc. For county matches we are given a choice of Pro V1 or Pro V1x but we have one guy that will only play with AD333's and he is off either scratch or +1.

Why do you think that is? Too much spin with the premium balls?

 

[Deleted Member 1156]

Why do you think that is? Too much spin with the premium balls?

No idea actually. I know he isn't a wealthy guy so it may be down to cost although he is a very good golfer and doesn't loose many balls.

 

[robinthehood]

If you made the top players use a top flite or whatever, theyd soon adjust and score as well as ever.
It's interesting that the spin rates of distance balls is much higher than you'd probably think.

 

[Beezerk]

I'd say any mid/high handicapper is wasting their money if they are buying premium balls purely for more backspin. Yes they may get a few more rpm with a premium ball but in real life performance given poor technique and the inability to put serious pro level backspin on a ball, I'd wager there's no difference when compared to a cheaper ball.

 

[Orikoru]

I'd say any mid/high handicapper is wasting their money if they are buying premium balls purely for more backspin. Yes they may get a few more rpm with a premium ball but in real life performance given poor technique and the inability to put serious pro level backspin on a ball, I'd wager there's no difference when compared to a cheaper ball.

Why do TXG say that everyone would perform better with a premium ball then I wonder? They said in the video everyone would play better with a better ball. This is why I started the thread really. I just figured the main difference is more spin.

 

[robinthehood]

Why do TXG say that everyone would perform better with a premium ball then I wonder? They said in the video everyone would play better with a better ball. This is why I started the thread really. I just figured the main difference is more spin.

I guess theyre saying that we'd all benefit from the extra greenside spin and even then it would be where you are short sided etc.. Although to be fair, unless your playing a real ow spinner like the velocity, most mid range balls spin pretty good and not that for away from the high end Prov etc.

 

[Orikoru]

The thing is it's not just about the spin numbers, it's about how each ball reacts through the air and on the green surface.

For example, when we play in wintry conditions on squidgy greens it doesn't matter what ball we use if everything just comes to a halt in a big pitchmark. Outside of that, the outer layer of premium balls will grip on good quality greens much more than rock-balls that will just bounce through. Compare a ball-bearing and a ping pong ball, you could maybe put the same spin on both but one you can spin on the table and the other will not grip.

This will also apply through the air, a new Topflite might have the same spin numbers as a ProV1 but the Topflite's shinier surface won't attract as much wind-resistance so will fly straighter and possibly longer. Taking those properties, a straighter, longer ball will be great for everyone, but the lower handicap will generally need something that also interacts with the grass on the greens, which is where the "premium" balls come into their own as they do that but also have length.

It all comes down to personal choice, but would I agree that "everyone would benefit from using premium balls"? No I definitely would not agree because if short iron distance control and short game prowess isn't a player's strong area, they won't see the benefit so what would be the point of spending the extra money?
On the flip side, I would definitely benefit from using a Topflite for length and straightness, but I'd lose out big time in my strong area, ie short game as I wouldn't be able to control what the ball is doing when it lands.

I've heard it said we should choose a ball by starting with what suits our short game and then go from there, makes sense.

Anyway, just my views ?

Good info, cheers. I've always broadly thought the same as you, that it's more of a trade-off - I choose to play Velocity because I'm not a big hitter, I feel that is better off the tee for me and I don't really need spin around the greens. So exactly the same deductions as you, just different outcome for my game instead of yours of course. That's why I raised eyebrows at their comments that everyone would be better off with a premium ball.

 

[robinthehood]

Good info, cheers. I've always broadly thought the same as you, that it's more of a trade-off - I choose to play Velocity because I'm not a big hitter, I feel that is better off the tee for me and I don't really need spin around the greens. So exactly the same deductions as you, just different outcome for my game instead of yours of course. That's why I raised eyebrows at their comments that everyone would be better off with a premium ball.

The only trade off is the extra control you get from a Prov1 vs A Velocity.

A tour ball will be better around the green in many situations, short sided chip to a down hill green , close bunkers etc, where you need the extra spin.

Off the tee, you may eek out an extra yard or 2 from a velocity, but it really isnt much longer than anything else.

 

[jim8flog]

I think the biggest deciding factor in ball choice is ego. Good players don't want to be seen teeing it up with a Pinnacle or TopFlite although if they are good enough they can allow for the differences that ball makes such as less spin off wedges etc. For county matches we are given a choice of Pro V1 or Pro V1x but we have one guy that will only play with AD333's and he is off either scratch or +1.

Are you sure it was an AD333 and not an AD333 Tour - very different balls. The AD333 Tour is a premium urethane cover high spin ball

However horses for courses if it is AD333 some players prefer the extra roll out from such a ball.