Didn't penalise a rule break because of tension.

[Kellfire]

Anyone been in this situation?

I've always been of the opinion that if I break a rule inadvertently and I'm called on it then I'll hold my hands up, take all onus off the marker and tell the person to give it no second thought and apply the penalty right away and I'll have no ill will.

Last week in a competition I dragged my drive into the trees. I wasn't sure if I'd find it so I played a provisional. Walked up the hole and found my first along the tree line. Fellow competitor shouts over from where my provisional is, "You get it?" to which I respond yes. He grabs a wedge from his bag and hits my second ball over to me!!

I play my shot, walk over to him and tell him he shouldn't have done that. He grimaces and says, "Yea I know, wasn't thinking". Seems like he's going to take it on the chin so when I say I'll need to put the two shot penalty on he completely turns, face goes like thunder and his exact words were "Do whatever the **** you need to do", storms off up the hole and makes his par. As we walk off he announces loudly in front of the third member of our group, who was oblivious to what happened earlier, that he's made par. That's minus the two shots.

I couldn't believe it. He barely looked at me as we stood on the next tee and it was all I could think about and I ended up taking about a six inch deep chunk of earth as I fat the next tee shot about 30 yards, such is my state of mind. I was so taken aback by his attitude and that he was going to force me to confront him and correct his score.

In the end I wilted, bottled it and didn't apply the penalty because I felt so uncomfortable in my own game and the company I was in. I know this makes no difference, but he wasn't ever in contention with his scoring and that's how I justified it.

Now over a week on I'm still really annoyed at myself for not manning up, putting his attitude to one side and giving him the two shots.

Argh.

 

[Crow]

I'm not sure that what your fellow competitor did is classed as practising, I think I remember reading in the Decisions book that if a player knocks some range balls that have found their way onto the fairway back to the range then it isn't classed as practising as long as he isn't playing a full swing that would give him an advantage.

If your FC was just returning your ball and not making a practise swing for the shot he's about to play then I think he'd be okay, all depends on the swing he put on his wedge.

 

[DCB]

If Rule 7-2 is the one being used to apply a penalty then I don't think that is the correct outcome. Decision 7-2/5.5 would back that up. No penalty in this case.

 

[Kellfire]

Wouldn't it be in breach of 15-3 as he took a proper swing to return the ball to me?

If you don't think so then I can stop feeling like I've done the wrong thing...

 

[Kellfire]

If Rule 7-2 is the one being used to apply a penalty then I don't think that is the correct outcome. Decision 7-2/5.5 would back that up. No penalty in this case.

You're right 7-2/5.5 seems to cover it actually. I was going down the 15-3 route but closer reading would suggest that 15-3 only comes into play if he thinks it is his ball and is clearly trying to play the hole.

Maybe this is a happy ending after all!

Still, it doesn't change his attitude because he clearly thought as I did that it was a rule break and that it shouldn't have been applied. So he was still in the wrong but for the wrong reasons.

 

[Colin L]

Oh dear, Kellfire, no wonder he was cross. Your FC helpfully knocks your ball over to you with his wedge to save you the trouble of going for it, and you tell him he has incurred a 2 shot penalty. Assuming as the others have done above, you were thinking of 7-2, there is no way he is subject to a penalty for practising. It is a casual act, done to be helpful from which he learns nothing in terms of what a practice shot might show ...... unless he was planning to wedge his own into the trees beside you. DCB points to the Decision you weren't aware of. Decision 7-2/5 is similar.

http://www.usga.org/Rule-Books/Rules-of-Golf/Decision-07/#7-2/5

Apart from unfortunately being wrong, you perhaps got yourself unnecessarily into a confrontation. The marker cannot impose a penalty on the player he is marking for: he is not a referee. If there is a question mark about whether a player has incurred a penalty, don't have a confrontation, just come to an agreement with your FC to have the matter decided after the round and before the card is handed in by the Committee. A polite "I think you might have earned a penalty there but if you don't agree we can check it out afterwards before we put our cards in" would, I suggest, be the way to do it.

 

[Colin L]

Not 15-3, as you obviously are realising yourself. Hitting your ball back to you was not a stroke since it was not done with any intention of it being in his score.

 

[Kellfire]

Oh dear, Kellfire, no wonder he was cross. Your FC helpfully knocks your ball over to you with his wedge to save you the trouble of going for it, and you tell him he has incurred a 2 shot penalty. Assuming as the others have done above, you were thinking of 7-2, there is no way he is subject to a penalty for practising. It is a casual act, done to be helpful from which he learns nothing in terms of what a practice shot might show ...... unless he was planning to wedge his own into the trees beside you. DCB points to the Decision you weren't aware of. Decision 7-2/5 is similar.

http://www.usga.org/Rule-Books/Rules-of-Golf/Decision-07/#7-2/5

Apart from unfortunately being wrong, you perhaps got yourself unnecessarily into a confrontation. The marker cannot impose a penalty on the player he is marking for: he is not a referee. If there is a question mark about whether a player has incurred a penalty, don't have a confrontation, just come to an agreement with your FC to have the matter decided after the round and before the card is handed in by the Committee. A polite "I think you might have earned a penalty there but if you don't agree we can check it out afterwards before we put our cards in" would, I suggest, be the way to do it.

I totally accept now that 7-2 was the rule I was looking for when I went for rule 15-3. Totally hold my hands up on being wrong on that one...

But when I approached him and voiced what I thought was true he AGREED that it was a rule break and still got shirty with me for saying it was a two shot penalty. I wasn't heavy handed at all in how I broached the subject, which was made as an honest mistake.

 

[Foxholer]

Far too sensible Colin!

You should get involved in the Trilby thread!

And in all seriousness, that's precisely the way it should be handled too - avoids, or at least minimises any confrontation.

Now what about for 10 inch gimmees that are simply taken!

 

[Sid Rixon IV]

Our 17th fairway runs parallel to our pro's coaching/practice range.
Its not uncommon to reach a stretch where there are quite a few practice balls strewn across the fairway.
I once chipped a couple back over to the practice area
1. At 90 degrees to the direction of the green.
2. The green being well past chipping range
..... and was told that constitutes practice shots (I now either ignore them or throw them over).

Was I breaching a rule?

 

[Colin L]

Our 17th fairway runs parallel to our pro's coaching/practice range.
Its not uncommon to reach a stretch where there are quite a few practice balls strewn across the fairway.
I once chipped a couple back over to the practice area
1. At 90 degrees to the direction of the green.
2. The green being well past chipping range
..... and was told that constitutes practice shots (I now either ignore them or throw them over).

Was I breaching a rule?

That was the subject of Decision 7-2/5 which I mentioned above. Given the description of what you did, you were not in breach of 7-2
http://www.usga.org/Rule-Books/Rules-of-Golf/Decision-07/#7-2/5
.

 

[MashieNiblick]

The Decision Colin refers to - 7-2/5 Hitting Practice Range Ball Back to Range - says

Q. During play of a hole, a player saw some balls from the adjoining practice range lying on the course and flicked one back to the range with his club. Is there a penalty under Rule 7-2?

A. In some circumstances the hitting of a practice range ball back towards the range during the play of a hole would be a breach of Rule 7-2, but the casual flicking of a range ball, apparently only for the purpose of tidying up the course, is not a breach.

The word "casual" is important. I don't think the relationship with the player's next or shot or direction of play necessarily matters in terms of whether Rule 7-2 is breached (e.g see 7-2/2 Putting on Fairway While Waiting to Play to Green, which was considered to be a breach). It is the nature of the action that matters. If I take the opportunity to purposefully chip (i.e. not casually flicking, but setting up as if it were a proper shot) 2 or 3 balls back onto the range then in my view I would be guilty of a breach.

For what it is worth I think you are right to err on the side of caution and throw the balls back. It saves any argument.