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Did You Vote Today?

chrisd said:
I'm happy to disagree over the matter Karen but am personally still offended by the "odious" slur.
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Took me a while to come up with an appropriate adjective in that post. Something that conveyed my outrage at being discriminated against without being too strong for the forum. It's far from perfect, maybe something more apt will come to mind belatedly, but I'm glad it touched a nerve.

I acknowledge you have never actually carried out this sort of discrimination, which I didn't initially appreciate.
 
Papas1982 said:
I wonder if all the people on here outraged, have ever mocked a friend for having a shandy, or not getting past the red tees?

Women in the work place have massive rights these days. I don't think an employee should need to be held accountable for when they go on leave. If all women agreed to come back fully then I would support it. But as I've said, many take fully maternity packages at the companies expense and then leave.
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You hit an issue my Mrs has with her work colleagues bang on - as she is totally p'd off with a couple of her younger female colleagues who think it is their right to be able to work flexibly and have time off as necessary to accommodate their childcare - no matter how that flexibility might impact the service their small team provides (in the NHS) or how it might impact upon their colleagues (such as my Mrs) who have to cover their time off and do all the later (after 5:30pm let's say) work that should be shared. Oh yes - and their annual leave requests have to take priority over the rest - as they have children - as if my M rs doesn;t have a life outside of work, commitments and resonsibilities.

rant over

Many women with young children are really not doing their case - or the case of younger women seeking employment - much good.
 
Hacker Khan said:
You have a daughter? How about the debate being 'Can you go tell her that no matter how much hard work and effort she puts into bettering herself, she may well not get employed purely because of her sex and and because there is a chance she will have a baby'? And if that's a socialist left wing activist argument instead of a morally right argument in anyone's world then so be it.

I am sure that there are lots of red tape and legislation that is putting a burden on businesses and that some of it should go. But lumping what I would call a basic human right of a person to be chosen on their ability rather than their sex together with other legislation is in my opinion morally and legally wrong. I will state again many many very successful business employ women.
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See! you can debate the subject matter without name calling. You should have done this the first time.
 
I voted in the Dunny-on-the-Wold Constituency. Wanted to vote for the "Standing at the back looking stupid" Party but once again they got no votes for that silly abolition of slavery policy.
 
Actually reading all of this stuff about maternity leave is quite amusing, here is another take for you. My wife can earn up to 3x my wages, why would she want or the household require her to take maternity leave? Should I not take it and bring our son up? Oh that isn't available is it? Paternity leave is around 2 weeks and it's generally assumed that a man earns more than a woman, which is untrue.
I do laugh my socks off when they say women earn less than men, it's such a gender misrepresentation... Equality for men please, especially proper engineers!
 
harpo_72 said:
Actually reading all of this stuff about maternity leave is quite amusing, here is another take for you. My wife can earn up to 3x my wages, why would she want or the household require her to take maternity leave? Should I not take it and bring our son up? Oh that isn't available is it? Paternity leave is around 2 weeks and it's generally assumed that a man earns more than a woman, which is untrue.
I do laugh my socks off when they say women earn less than men, it's such a gender misrepresentation... Equality for men please, especially proper engineers!
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Exactly! Parental leave / Childcare etc is not a women's issue despite predominantly being considered in that way. Once it's seen as a "parent's issue" a lot of this sort of discrimination should go away.
 
harpo_72 said:
Actually reading all of this stuff about maternity leave is quite amusing, here is another take for you. My wife can earn up to 3x my wages, why would she want or the household require her to take maternity leave? Should I not take it and bring our son up? Oh that isn't available is it? Paternity leave is around 2 weeks and it's generally assumed that a man earns more than a woman, which is untrue.
I do laugh my socks off when they say women earn less than men, it's such a gender misrepresentation... Equality for men please, especially proper engineers!
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I am sure the government were talking about introducing a scheme where the parents can share the leave. So the father can take up to 6 months off and return to their job instead of the mother, if their financial situation makes more sense.

No idea what stage this got to, being cynical I'd say the government are probably weighing up if it will be a net vote winner or loser for the next election.
 
In general Women are better than men at raising children, its their natural role. Men can muddle through the role but are not as good at it. I think the majority of Women would prefer to stay at home and raise their offspring but are restricted doing this for financial reasons. Maybe if more Women stayed at home while their children grew up then house prices would fall along with incomes and some of the need to return to work would be removed.

Just thinking.
 
SocketRocket said:
In general Women are better than men at raising children, its their natural role. Men can muddle through the role but are not as good at it. I think the majority of Women would prefer to stay at home and raise their offspring but are restricted doing this for financial reasons. Maybe if more Women stayed at home while their children grew up then house prices would fall along with incomes and some of the need to return to work would be removed.

Just thinking.
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Just fishing?
 
I know that my wife feels guilty that she is working and not looking after her little boy. However to suggest one gender is better than the other is incorrect. Having watched how parents interact, and child minders I think it's parent dependant, basically if you want to be involved that's your choice. I have witnessed mothers just plonking their child down and gassing with their friends and their child just running about and causing mayhem. I have also been asked to look after their kids whilst they gas with their friends. The child minders are similar, it does depend how professional they are some are brilliant and interact really well with their children.
I suppose I am very lucky my boy knows I am his father and I saw his first steps and we have had our second word tonight which was "cheese" ...
 
harpo_72 said:
I know that my wife feels guilty that she is working and not looking after her little boy. However to suggest one gender is better than the other is incorrect. Having watched how parents interact, and child minders I think it's parent dependant, basically if you want to be involved that's your choice. I have witnessed mothers just plonking their child down and gassing with their friends and their child just running about and causing mayhem. I have also been asked to look after their kids whilst they gas with their friends. The child minders are similar, it does depend how professional they are some are brilliant and interact really well with their children.
I suppose I am very lucky my boy knows I am his father and I saw his first steps and we have had our second word tonight which was "cheese" ...
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In general!

There will of course be exceptions but we cant close our eyes to nature, the female species have evolved to give birth and nurture the offspring. Males have evolved to satisfy the need for food, shelter and the other hierarchical needs for survival and this is generally the case throughout the natural world.

In the majority of cases its not about whether the father or mother stays home with the children, its about the children being farmed out to others so that the money supply is available to improve lifestyle.
 
SocketRocket said:
In general!

There will of course be exceptions but we cant close our eyes to nature, the female species have evolved to give birth and nurture the offspring. Males have evolved to satisfy the need for food, shelter and the other hierarchical needs for survival and this is generally the case throughout the natural world.

In the majority of cases its not about whether the father or mother stays home with the children, its about the children being farmed out to others so that the money supply is available to improve lifestyle.
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It's okay if you don't want to participate, it's your choice, not all fathers are the same. I don't think your talking about nature your making a social comment, one that is forced upon us ... As I stated earlier men don't have the options women do.
 
harpo_72 said:
It's okay if you don't want to participate, it's your choice, not all fathers are the same. I don't think your talking about nature your making a social comment, one that is forced upon us ... As I stated earlier men don't have the options women do.
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Do you disagree that other species of mammals live this way?
 
Fairway Dodger, serious question. When you renew your car insurance do you demand to be treated equally or are you happy to accept a female driver discount?
 
SocketRocket said:
In general Women are better than men at raising children, its their natural role. Men can muddle through the role but are not as good at it. I think the majority of Women would prefer to stay at home and raise their offspring but are restricted doing this for financial reasons. Maybe if more Women stayed at home while their children grew up then house prices would fall along with incomes and some of the need to return to work would be removed.

Just thinking.
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Thanks for that nuanced economic insight there. Before you use this for evidence to support your argument, this is ironic.

[video=youtube;LS37SNYjg8w]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LS37SNYjg8w[/video]
 
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