Deep Bunkers and Right to get Out of them

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

We are in the process of rebuilding all of our bunkers (four year programme). There is going to be some controversy around the depth and steepness of face of many.

The faces are going to be built in a revetted fashion using recycled astroturf - the face of the bunkers will be very steep - and many will be deep - some a fair bit 'deeper' in the face than before.

The design and objective is that a ball going into a bunker close to the face will roll away from the face into the middle of the bunker. From maybe 2ft from a face the sand will be sloped up to the face and smooth raked to enable the ball to roll away from the face. But clearly sometimes it will not.

On Sunday I found myself about 20inches from the face of a new bunker - the sand had not been fully smooth-raked and so it hadn't rolled that far from the face. The face in front of me was maybe 3ft+ high and very steep - almost vertical to my eyes though clearly note actually. I nearly got it out. It pinged somewhere high on the face and went straight up in the air - then landed plugged about a foot from the face.

I could not get the ball out.

And eventually got on the green in three.

Now this sort of scenario I can see happening quite often.

Thoughts on this. Especially - if my ball is 20" from the face of a bunker with a 3ft face is that a tough shot so shouldn't expect to get it out. Any issues with any of the above.

I'm OK with it but can imagine many members are gong to be baffled and p'd off if they take 2, 3 or more to get out bunkers when previously they had a 'good' bunker game.

I know I just have to teach myself that if I am 20" from the face of such a bunker I just have to understand that to get out I MUST accelerate through the ball and accept the club hitting the face

Advice from links players especially welcome for getting out of links pot bunkers.

 

[duncan mackie]

I'll leave the getting out advice to the professionals, personally it's hit and hope with my low bounce 60 opened up....

We have built some bunker faces this way (recycled range mats) and they last well and look good...however the key is the underlying design of the bunker base, structure and profiling so that what should happen happens! Such designs aren't going to work with a lot of loose sand!

 

[Twire]

Next year 2019 rules you will be able to take a drop out of the bunker for a 2 shot penalty.

 

[Imurg]

It's also not a rule that you have to play towards the hole...
Sometimes you just have to come out sideways or even backwards...

 

[User62651]

If you are that close to the face take your medicine, play out to side or back or even take an unplayable and drop under penalty out of the bunker. At least they are proper hazards to avoid now, people forget they are meant to be penal. Adds to the quality and reputation of your course too.

Get some bunker practice done too so you know exactly what is do-able.

Sat and watched numerous groups go through 17th green at St Andrews Open many year ago, around 90% of the pros when in the road hole bunker opted to play out backwards or to the side, course management, get out in one, chip and putt for bogey, move on.

 

[Don Barzini]

Next year 2019 rules you will be able to take a drop out of the bunker for a 2 shot penalty.

Or you can declare the ball unplayable and for one shot penalty move it further back in the bunker, or retake your shot from where you originally played it from.

http://www.solidgolf.co.uk/project/know-your-options-in-bunkers/

 

[Dan2501]

As above - could you not have come out sideways/backwards?

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

All good stuff - I'll post a picture of one. They do look superb. The sand is quite gritty - very different from the current sand which is fine and clogs with rain - and though the new sand is loose on top it becomes quite firm underneath quite quickly (though not rock solid)

One of our assistant pros is running a series of bunker sessions for the members - explaining the differences then and now; how to get out - and ow to rake the bunkers - as that is going to be very important. Charging £5 a head to join a big group lesson - good idea methinks.

BTW - I am not complaining

I thought my ball might have rolled a bit further from the face, but I still thought I could get out - and I could easy have played sideways. I was a bit miffed when my first attempt to get out plugged a foot from the face - but that could have happened before (and regularly did). For some reason I was hoping it would have rolled from where it had landed and not plugged - though on reflection a ball coming down vertically isn't going to roll anywhere

But I STILL tried to get out towards the flag (more fool me). Managed third time from middle of bunker

 

[patricks148]

TBH, any advice you get is only going to be a certain amount of use.

We have some very deep pot bunkers even the shallow ones are deeper than 3 ft but could get out of all but two ( 10ft +) with a 56 deg SW. i switched to a 58 deg at the end of last year and that has solved the other two. but there are occasions where you have to take your medicine and just get it out sometimes sideways sometimes backwards.

Also the sand raked up the face rarely works unless you have very specific sand. too soft, no chance. most of the time at ours you just end up plugged in the face esp the green side ones. what tends to also happen is because the sand is raked up the face there is little or none in the middle, so ball rolls straight though into the face and stays there.

Come to Nairn for a week playing, if you can get out of ours anywhere after that is a push over:rofl:

i would suggest having a bunker lesson with your pro on how to get out of these.. in one of the actual bunkers.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

TBH, any advice you get is only going to be a certain amount of use.

We have some very deep pot bunkers even the shallow ones are deeper than 3 ft but could get out of all but two ( 10ft +) with a 56 deg SW. i switched to a 58 deg at the end of last year and that has solved the other two. but there are occasions where you have to take your medicine and just get it out sometimes sideways sometimes backwards.

Also the sand raked up the face rarely works unless you have very specific sand. too soft, no chance. most of the time at ours you just end up plugged in the face esp the green side ones. what tends to also happen is because the sand is raked up the face there is little or none in the middle, so ball rolls straight though into the face and stays there.

Come to Nairn for a week playing, if you can get out of ours anywhere after that is a push over:rofl:

i would suggest having a bunker lesson with your pro on how to get out of these.. in one of the actual bunkers.

Just what I want to hear, and see lessons on the way

Issue is going to be that many members complain endlessly about our bunkers; their inconsistency and how difficult it can be to get out. I think many will believe what we are dong will somehow solve their bunker play problems, when in fact what is going to happen is hat we will CONSISTENTLY be presented with a different challenge, but it will be consistent, and we'll all just have to learn how to play out of them - some members won;t like having to change their bunker ways and learn a new skill

BTW - planning to be visiting relatives in Inverness, Conon Bridge and Fortrose later this summer

 

[patricks148]

Just what I want to hear, and see lessons on the way

Issue is going to be that many members complain endlessly about our bunkers; their inconsistency and how difficult it can be to get out. I think many will believe what we are dong will somehow solve their bunker play problems, when in fact what is going to happen is hat we will CONSISTENTLY be presented with a different challenge, but it will be consistent, and we'll all just have to learn how to play out of them - some members won;t like having to change their bunker ways and learn a new skill

BTW - planning to be visiting relatives in Inverness, Conon Bridge and Fortrose later this summer

def play Fortrose, short, but always a challenge purely down to the wind. Bunkers are a challenge there, no bugger ever rakes them, esp not the members

 

[User62651]

Or you can declare the ball unplayable and for one shot penalty move it further back in the bunker, or retake your shot from where you originally played it from.

http://www.solidgolf.co.uk/project/know-your-options-in-bunkers/

I may get corrected here but I think you can drop under penalty of 1 shot by going back out of the bunker if you wish to any distance back but staying in line with the flag OR take a 2 clublength drop not nearer the hole if that'll get you out of the bunker OR as mentioned already go back to where you played your last shot.
3 options to get a lift out of the evil bunker with a 1 shot penalty.

Dropping in the bunker would only make sense if it was a free drop for e.g. flooding or none of the 3 drop under penalty options gave a better lie.

 

[richart]

Not sure why you have links style bunkers on a parkland/heathland course.

Trying to think of other similar style courses with such bunkers. Aren’t deep, pot style bunkers, to keep sand in from strong winds. Not sure Farnham is a windy town. I remember when Farnham was holding a seniors qualifying comp for the pros, the pga came round and wanted the bunkers on the left of nine reshaped and flattened out. Seems they were too difficult for pros.

Unfortunately bunkers are a real hazard for most amateur golfers, and very deep ones even more so. For pros they are hardly a hazard, and are easier for them to play out of than thick rough which is often around them.

 

[hovis]

welcome to my wold. our head green keeper seems to get hard over pot / rivot style bunkers. they are horrible to play from. if the ball dribbles over the lip you have no shot either way. if it rolls in a normal pace it still ends up against one of the faces.

the downside for the green staff is people are constantly hitting their wedges against the faces and the bunkers over a year have started to collapse.

 

[bladeplayer]

If you are that close to the face take your medicine, play out to side or back

or even take an unplayable and drop under penalty out of the bunker.

Is this option available currently ??

 

[Twire]

Is this option available currently ??

No the only current option to drop out of the bunker is stroke and distance (back to where you last played from) for a 1 stroke penalty.

The problem with the current rules is if fail to get your ball out on your first attempt you then lose the stroke and distance option. From next year 2019 as mentioned you will be able to drop out for a 2 stroke penalty in line with the pin.

 

[bladeplayer]

No the only current option to drop out of the bunker is stroke and distance (back to where you last played from) for a 1 stroke penalty.

The problem with the current rules is if fail to get your ball out on your first attempt you then lose the stroke and distance option. From next year 2019 as mentioned you will be able to drop out for a 2 stroke penalty in line with the pin.

Thought that . Was not so sure then .. thank you

 

[Don Barzini]

I may get corrected here but I think you can drop under penalty of 1 shot by going back out of the bunker if you wish to any distance back but staying in line with the flag OR take a 2 clublength drop not nearer the hole if that'll get you out of the bunker OR as mentioned already go back to where you played your last shot.
3 options to get a lift out of the evil bunker with a 1 shot penalty.

Dropping in the bunker would only make sense if it was a free drop for e.g. flooding or none of the 3 drop under penalty options gave a better lie.

My understanding of the rule is that you can only drop OUT of the bunker if you're returning to where you originally played from.

http://www.barryrhodes.com/2009/03/rule-28-ball-unplayable.html

The player may deem his ball unplayable at any place on the course, except when the ball is in a water hazard. The player is the sole judge as to whether his ball is unplayable.

If the player deems his ball to be unplayable, he must, under penalty of one stroke:

a. Play a ball as nearly as possible at the spot from which the original ball was last played (see Rule 20-5); or

b. Drop a ball behind the point where the ball lay, keeping that point directly between the hole and the spot on which the ball is dropped, with no limit to how far behind that point the ball may be dropped; or

c. Drop a ball within two club-lengths of the spot where the ball lay, but not nearer the hole.

If the unplayable ball is in a bunker, the player may proceed under Clause a, b or c. If he elects to proceed under Clause b or c, a ball must be dropped in the bunker.

When proceeding under this Rule, the player may lift and clean his ball or substitute a ball.

 

[DCB]

Time to look at what wedges you are carrying and maybe make a wee change. Depending on the sand you may need to review loft and bounce to help you get out the bunkers. After that it comes down to practice and confidence in what you have practised

 

[hines57]

It's also not a rule that you have to play towards the hole...
Sometimes you just have to come out sideways or even backwards...

+1 for this - sometimes that's the only sensible play - even for pros!!