Declaring a ball OOB

[shortgame]

Hi rules gurus, another odd question...

Pairs matchplay

Player A drives towards OOB thin hits a provisional. After a minute the player states 'nah it's OB, I'll play on with my provisional

A minute later, before he can continue with his provisional, a spectator finds the original ball

Should player A continue with his original ball as the provisional is by then out of commission as his words had no affect in the same way you can't declare a ball lost by words alone

Thanks guys

 

[RangeRat]

If the original ball is found, he must identify it, and if it is in play, he must continue with the original balll.

You can’t declare a ball as lost.

 

[bobmac]

You can’t declare a ball as lost.

If anyone reading this is new to golf and is confused by this, you can actually declare a ball lost.

You can just say.........
''That ball's lost, I'll hit another'' or words to that affect.

Just don't mention the word provisional.

 

[rosecott]

If anyone reading this is new to golf and is confused by this, you can actually declare a ball lost.

You can just say.........
''That ball's lost, I'll hit another'' or words to that affect.

Just don't mention the word provisional.

For anyone new to golf, you cannot declare a ball lost, but you can take an action that renders it lost e.g. by putting another ball into play without declaring it as a provisional.

The OP's question was about what can happen after a provisional has been declared and played.

 

[bobmac]

For anyone new to golf, you cannot declare a ball lost, but you can take an action that renders it lost e.g. by putting another ball into play without declaring it as a provisional.

The OP's question was about what can happen after a provisional has been declared and played.

So if someone hits a ball into the rubbish and said ''that ball's lost'' and hit another, would you correct him?

 

[Foxholer]

So if someone hits a ball into the rubbish and said ''that ball's lost'' and hit another, would you correct him?

Yes!

 

[bobmac]

Yes!

Why?

 

[Foxholer]

Because it wasn't Lost - according to the Definition of 'Lost Ball' in the Rules of Golf!

 

[duncan mackie]

So if someone hits a ball into the rubbish and said ''that ball's lost'' and hit another, would you correct him?

There's nothing to correct? He has hit another ball, without declaring it a provisional, rendering the ball lost.

His declaration that the ball is lost is lost has no meaning, or function.

Consider the same player making the same ststement in the same situation but not playing a further ball at that point but striding off up the fairway.....is the first ball lost? (and I know you know it isn't...)

 

[Foxholer]

There's nothing to correct?...

Except his perception of 'Lost Ball'

He then hits another ball, without declaring it a provisional, rendering the original ball lost.

As rosecott stated, it's that subsequent action that makes the ball 'Lost' - as per RofG Definitions - not any 'declaration'!

 

[duncan mackie]

Except his perception of 'Lost Ball'

He then hits another ball, without declaring it a provisional, rendering the original ball lost.

As rosecott stated, it's that subsequent action that makes the ball 'Lost' - as per RofG Definitions - not any 'declaration'!

So what you are saying is that after someone has taken an action that turns his perception into reality you would wish to correct any mistaken perception he may have briefly held, there and then....

Post #2 gave the correct answer - the end.

 

[bobmac]

So Jimmy hits a bad drive and says

1. That's in the rubbish, I'll hit another which isn't a provisional.
2. That's in the rubbish, I'll hit another

In both examples, has he declared to his fellow competitors that he considers his first ball lost?

 

[rulefan]

So Jimmy hits a bad drive and says

1. That's in the rubbish, I'll hit another which isn't a provisional.
2. That's in the rubbish, I'll hit another

In both examples, has he declared to his fellow competitors that he considers his first ball lost?

Not quite. He may have made a declaration but it has no value. His ball doesn't become lost until he makes a stroke at the second ball.

Of course in case 2) the next ball will not be a provisional because he didn't make it absolutely clear that he intended it to be a provisional.


As a further digression, if his ball that went into the rubbish wasn't played from the tee, the second ball comes into play as soon as he drops it not when he plays it.

 

[bobmac]

Not quite. He may have made a declaration but it has no value. His ball doesn't become lost until he makes a stroke at the second ball.

But the status of the second ball depends on what was declared before the second ball was hit.
If Jimmy says it's a provisional then fine. If he doesn't claim it's a provisional then the first ball is declared lost and the second ball will be 3 off the tee.

 

[backwoodsman]

But the status of the second ball depends on what was declared before the second ball was hit.
If Jimmy says it's a provisional then fine. If he doesn't claim it's a provisional then the first ball is declared lost and the second ball will be 3 off the tee.

It is not to do with what is "declared" - it is to do with what is not declared. If he doesn't say it is a provisional, and merely plays another ball, the original ball is not "declared" lost, it is not "declared" OOB, and it it not "declared" unplayable. It is merely an action of a player not wishing to continue with the original and who plays another ball under stroke and distance.

But if someone finds the ball before that action is taken, then all bets are off ... Regardless of what may have been said.

 

[rulefan]

But the status of the second ball depends on what was declared before the second ball was hit.
If Jimmy says it's a provisional then fine. If he doesn't claim it's a provisional then the first ball is declared lost and the second ball will be 3 off the tee.

If he doesn't declare it to be a provisional and he subsequently plays it, it is deemed lost according to the definition of a Lost Ball.
A ball can never be declared lost. It simply becomes lost when the definition says so.

 

[Crow]

Can we just agree that it's no longer the ball in play and be done with it?

Each time I drop into this thread we're still going round in mindless circles, but I suppose that sums up the whole forum of late.

 

[rulefan]

Can we just agree that it's no longer the ball in play

Why not simply use the words used in the book and be done with it?

 

[Crow]

Why not simply use the words used in the book and be done with it?

I'm sorry I joined in now.

 

[shortgame]

Just going back to the original question, it seems my understanding was correct...

i.e the player's declaration/assumption ot was OOB had no bearing as he had not taken any action to make the first ball 'lost' - i.e he had not played his 2nd ball before his 1st ball was found in bounds

Thanks again :thup:

I will get around to digesting the thread in the morning with fresh eyes!