Course Yardage/Tees to be a Qualifier?

[AmandaJR]

I was told by our county handicap secretary that the course cannot be altered by more than + or - 100yds from the SSS measured course to be a qualifier (check - find that on Congu rules) but also that each tee cannot be placed more than + or - 10yds from the measured SSS tee. Can't find that to confirm it is correct - anyone know?

Thanks, Amanda

 

[duncan mackie]

I beleive that to be the case Amanda.

We use a couple of different 'winter tees' and one is over the 10yds. Previously, on the basis that the net was <100 we just used the same SSS - but were recently advised that this wasn't appropriate. Fortunately we were due to have the course measured again and included the winter set-up - which came in at the same SSS!

I beleive the reason is that the relationship between a tee and hazard is also a factor in the overall rating process, and if you tok things to an extreme (moved a few a long way back and others a long way forward) it does become obvious why it's relevant.

I should add that there's nothing in the manual that covers this though - even to the extent of Dec 7 (a). When remeasuring they also picked us up on the 'new' 7 (b) requiring measurement from a point at least 4 yds ahead of the back of the tee!

One more thing - you can go beyond 100 yds, but you have to adjust the SSS by 1. However, this is of course at odds to the above because you can't get more than 179 without a change of more than 10 yards! I think it's basically saying if you are temprorarily changing a hole by more than 10 yds please discuss rather than just doing it.

 

[AmandaJR]

Thanks Duncan. I'm having a debate with the men's secretary as our 15th tee is on temporary ground (rough!) way in front of the medal tees so I say non qualifier and he disagrees. Having said that it will be irrelevant for this weekend's comps as at best we'll have 9 holes only open!

It makes sense as you could move one tee 99 yards forwards or back (I guess) which would make a huge difference to the SSS.

 

[duncan mackie]

Thanks Duncan. I'm having a debate with the men's secretary as our 15th tee is on temporary ground (rough!) way in front of the medal tees so I say non qualifier and he disagrees. Having said that it will be irrelevant for this weekend's comps as at best we'll have 9 holes only open!

It makes sense as you could move one tee 99 yards forwards or back (I guess) which would make a huge difference to the SSS.

As it's not written down I would suggest that his view was 'correct' until you got advised otherwise! I'm sure it will all stil be acceptable after the exchange of a few words with the County!

 

[AmandaJR]

I contacted England Golf Handicapping and their response is pretty clear:

Hi Amanda,



You are correct in thinking that for a competition to be a qualifier the course must be within 100 yards of the measured course.



In the definitions on page 10 of the CONGU UHS it give the definition of a competition tee, which mentions that the teeing ground should normally be placed within 10 yards of the distance point. If tees are outside of this as a temporary measure, qualifiers can still be played as long as you are within the 100 yards.

So time to admit I was wrong to the men's handicap secretary!!

 

[duncan mackie]

I contacted England Golf Handicapping and their response is pretty clear:

Hi Amanda,



You are correct in thinking that for a competition to be a qualifier the course must be within 100 yards of the measured course.



In the definitions on page 10 of the CONGU UHS it give the definition of a competition tee, which mentions that the teeing ground should normally be placed within 10 yards of the distance point. If tees are outside of this as a temporary measure, qualifiers can still be played as long as you are within the 100 yards.

So time to admit I was wrong to the men's handicap secretary!!

where we got picked up was the term 'temporary' because we have different tees in use each winter that are over 10 yds from the measured point etc

I think it's fair to say there's a little scope in the way it's written, and the use of the word temporary!

 

[Doon frae Troon]

Duncan I think half of the clubs in the country fall foul of the 4 yards from the back of the tee rule. They usually measure two club legnths and forget about the one club legnth a player can tee off back from the tee markers.
That makes them at least 36 yards shorter than they state.

Any greenkepers watching please remember that the tee positionings can be vital.
When my daughter was young she was desperately trying to get down to 5 to play in the English girls championship.
A good qualifying score was ruled out as one tee was more than 10 yards forward on a short hole.

 

[Colin L]

Duncan I think half of the clubs in the country fall foul of the 4 yards from the back of the tee rule. They usually measure two club legnths and forget about the one club legnth a player can tee off back from the tee markers.
That makes them at least 36 yards shorter than they state.

I know this is not an area I am particularly familiar with, but I don't follow this. What is the "4 yards from the back of the tee" rule and where will I find it? I thought CONGU simply advised clubs to make sure tee markers were positioned such that a player could get full use of the depth of the teeing ground which is 2 club lengths from the markers, not one. So a tee which allows for the maximum permissible variations would need to have its measuring point minimally 10 yards and two club lengths from the back of the tee and 10 yards from the front.

 

[duncan mackie]

I know this is not an area I am particularly familiar with, but I don't follow this. What is the "4 yards from the back of the tee" rule and where will I find it? I thought CONGU simply advised clubs to make sure tee markers were positioned such that a player could get full use of the depth of the teeing ground which is 2 club lengths from the markers, not one. So a tee which allows for the maximum permissible variations would need to have its measuring point minimally 10 yards and two club lengths from the back of the tee and 10 yards from the front.

Colin, It's the working requirement for new courses, and adjustments, associated with exactly what you reference here ie it's considered that 4 yards is appropriate to enable 2 club lengths etc.
It's referenced as 4 yds in Dec 7(b) part (a) page 95 of the CONGU manual England version.

 

[Colin L]

Thanks Duncan. 4 yards = 2 clublengths. That's some club Can I use it for measuring relief from an unplayable, please.

I know, I know. You need a bit more than an exact 2 clublengths since you could tee your ball right on the 2 lengths back and then need room for your stance and swing.

 

[duncan mackie]

Thanks Duncan. 4 yards = 2 clublengths. That's some club Can I use it for measuring relief from an unplayable, please.

I know, I know. You need a bit more than an exact 2 clublengths since you could tee your ball right on the 2 lengths back and then need room for your stance and swing.

more think Adam Scott I suspect......

 

[Kellfire]

So when a club sets a tee position closer than four yards to the back of the tee box, they're in error?

 

[duncan mackie]

So when a club sets a tee position closer than four yards to the back of the tee box, they're in error?

no

CONGU is about the measurement of the course, and the issue here is the positioning of the hole's reference point.

there is nothing in any rule that requires the committee to position the actual tee markers such that a player has a level area, closely mown and 2 CL deep.