Course Rating

[Deleted member 21784]

You’re flogging a dead horse here mate.
Nobody listens to golfers experiences on their own golf courses.
If it’s not in the manual it dosnt count.

And there we have the real issue.

The fact they gave the slope 112 off yellows compared to 111 whites makes it even more balderdash

Even Phil admits the yellows are easier

Just making it up as they go along

 

[Swango1980]

You’re flogging a dead horse here mate.
Nobody listens to golfers experiences on their own golf courses.
If it’s not in the manual it dosnt count.

They downgraded our slope 9pts
But I asked how if that’s right why did they get it so wrong the first time.?

I think it is more that people give less credibility to those who don't understand the Rating System in the first place.

You could go to every golf course in the world and speak to members. Some of whom will find their course difficult. Others who find it easy. The opinion of an individual golfer is worthless when talking about a rating system used by all.

 

[Deleted member 21784]

I think it is more that people give less credibility to those who don't understand the Rating System in the first place.

You could go to every golf course in the world and speak to members. Some of whom will find their course difficult. Others who find it easy. The opinion of an individual golfer is worthless when talking about a rating system used by all.

I understand that the rating system if systematically flawed and shouldn't be used for score diffs

The manual says a bogey golfer but doesn't actually know what a real bogey golfer does

 

[clubchamp98]

I think it is more that people give less credibility to those who don't understand the Rating System in the first place.

You could go to every golf course in the world and speak to members. Some of whom will find their course difficult. Others who find it easy. The opinion of an individual golfer is worthless when talking about a rating system used by all.

Yes if you draw the ball or fade the ball any course might play hard or easy.

Rating will suit some but not suit others.

If said before “ I find our yellows more difficult than the whites”
Even though I get two more shots on the white I can’t reach most of the bunkers but can off the yellow.
Shorter isn’t always easier.

 

[Deleted member 21784]

Yes if you draw the ball or fade the ball any course might play hard or easy.

Rating will suit some but not suit others.

Nice to see somebody who understands how it works for the average golfer

Doesn't seem golf England is interested in the average golfer

 

[Swango1980]

Nice to see somebody who understands how it works for the average golfer

Doesn't seem golf England is interested in the average golfer

There are plenty of golfers who are happy about it, and simply don't complain. They have nothing to argue about.

Are they also the "average" golfer?

 

[clubchamp98]

Nice to see somebody who understands how it works for the average golfer

Doesn't seem golf England is interested in the average golfer

We have the same thing when we go to other courses.
“ how the hell is this rated higher than our place” is very commonly heard.

 

[Deleted member 21784]

We have the same thing when we go to other courses.
“ how the hell is this rated higher than our place” is very commonly heard.

Whenever I go other courses and I have a bad round it's still 34 plus points

I played 2 rounds at the same course and hit 44 points , one in a monsoon because I got a ridiculous amount of shots

 

[Deleted member 21784]

There are plenty of golfers who are happy about it, and simply don't complain. They have nothing to argue about.

Are they also the "average" golfer?

Majority of golfers don't understand ratings or care about them

That is the difference

 

[D-S]

Majority of golfers don't understand ratings or care about them

That is the difference

Patently from your comments you also are part of the majority in this aspect.

 

[Deleted member 21784]

Patently from your comments you also are part of the majority in this aspect.

Ah insults, the fine way to show you have nothing left in the argument when your side has been rebuffed ..

As I keep saying to both you and @rulefan

Watch the video. On double speed so takes less time

You will see

 

[D-S]

Ah insults, the fine way to show you have nothing left in the argument when your side has been rebuffed ..

As I keep saying to both you and @rulefan

Watch the video. On double speed so takes less time

You will see

I don’t think it’s an insult to say that you don’t appear to understand the rating process, your comments and questions in this thread show this to be the case.

 

[rulefan]

Right. I'm sorry but the process is completely flawed.

Do you really know what the actual process is?
Did you know what a bogey player was before I told you?

 

[Deleted member 21784]

I don’t think it’s an insult to say that you don’t appear to understand the rating process, your comments and questions in this thread show this to be the case.

With all due respect I don't believe the raters understand what a bogey golfer is. The manual may define but the manual doesn't cover all averages.

The course rating is spot on , it highlights that the course is difficult but the slope rating does not

Every guide you read says higher slope = harder for abogey golfer. Yet every bogey who comes to our places struggles. They don't shoot handicap by any means

Now comparing the two courses listed with the course rating taking effect tou should get more shots at ingrebourne than top meadow. Because it's harder . You shouldn't get less because the slopes fudged.

My example I get 22 off our whites and 27 off top meadows. Our whites are 1 shot harder than theirs

My scores at top meadow are always in the 90s , My scores at ours are most of time 90s sometimes don't break 100 if it's a bad day.. so surely more shots would be needed no? Considering I've played top meadow for years and years and haven't not broken 100 there for about a decade maybe more. It's open. Short. Much more forgiving.. I don't need 27 shots off a 22.9 index.....

Case and point if I was a member at top meadow id be off 18 because of my average scores there

But because I can't break 90 at my place I'm not

Are you understanding why the slope rating doesn't make any sense?

 

[rulefan]

With all due respect I don't believe the raters understand what a bogey golfer is. The manual may define but the manual doesn't cover all averages.

The course rating is spot on , it highlights that the course is difficult but the slope rating does not

Every guide you read says higher slope = harder for abogey golfer. Yet every bogey who comes to our places struggles. They don't shoot handicap by any means

Now comparing the two courses listed with the course rating taking effect tou should get more shots at ingrebourne than top meadow. Because it's harder . You shouldn't get less because the slopes fudged.

My example I get 22 off our whites and 27 off top meadows. Our whites are 1 shot harder than theirs

My scores at top meadow are always in the 90s , My scores at ours are most of time 90s sometimes don't break 100 if it's a bad day.. so surely more shots would be needed no? Considering I've played top meadow for years and years and haven't not broken 100 there for about a decade maybe more. It's open. Short. Much more forgiving.. I don't need 27 shots off a 22.9 index.....

Case and point if I was a member at top meadow id be off 18 because of my average scores there

But because I can't break 90 at my place I'm not

Are you understanding why the slope rating doesn't make any sense?

A sample of one doesn't tell anyone anything.

 

[Deleted member 21784]

Do you really know what the actual process is?
Did you know what a bogey player was before I told you?

Yes and yes..

The definition of a bogey player is very broad and doesn't reflect what a bogey player can be

Know plenty of 20 handicappers who drive it miles but short game is awful which is why they aren't off single digits

 

[Deleted member 21784]

I'm quite happy for you 2 to look at My handicap record and you will see my scores and how anytime i play away from my course I score similar to my own course but suddenly it's worth a good score diff.

 

[Deleted member 21784]

A sample of one doesn't tell anyone anything.

Could sample the entire membership, all of their scores improve at other courses..

 

[Deleted member 21784]

All players have their own perceptions of how easy/difficult a course is, largely based on their own strengths and weaknesses. Such subjective judgements are of little value in assessing the accuracy of ratings.

Also, Slope isn't a measure of difficulty - it's function is to maintain an appropriate relative difference in handicap between lower and higher handicappers.
On a course that is easier for higher handicappers, the difference will be lesser, and on a course easier for lower handicappers the difference will be greater, than on a course that is equally difficult for both (slope 113).

This is why I don't understand why slope is used for the score diff at all. Like I've been saying all day if I score x at my place it's worth less than x at another place because the slope is lower. But by your own statement here slope can be low because it's equally challenging for both good and average golfers

That being the case the score diff should reflect that . Having the slope in there doesn't reflect it. Devalues it.

 

[Swango1980]

With all due respect I don't believe the raters understand what a bogey golfer is. The manual may define but the manual doesn't cover all averages.

The course rating is spot on , it highlights that the course is difficult but the slope rating does not

Every guide you read says higher slope = harder for abogey golfer. Yet every bogey who comes to our places struggles. They don't shoot handicap by any means

Now comparing the two courses listed with the course rating taking effect tou should get more shots at ingrebourne than top meadow. Because it's harder . You shouldn't get less because the slopes fudged.

My example I get 22 off our whites and 27 off top meadows. Our whites are 1 shot harder than theirs

My scores at top meadow are always in the 90s , My scores at ours are most of time 90s sometimes don't break 100 if it's a bad day.. so surely more shots would be needed no? Considering I've played top meadow for years and years and haven't not broken 100 there for about a decade maybe more. It's open. Short. Much more forgiving.. I don't need 27 shots off a 22.9 index.....

Case and point if I was a member at top meadow id be off 18 because of my average scores there

But because I can't break 90 at my place I'm not

Are you understanding why the slope rating doesn't make any sense?

What do you mean they don't understand what the "bogey golfer" is? It is their terminology, they defined it, specifically to get ratings.

They could have called it something else. Average golfer, mediocre golfer, etc. But they chose bogey golfer.