Course Rating

[clubchamp98]

If he's a long hitter not a bogey golfer no? Thank you for watching it. Appreciate that

Bogey golfer seems an older concept as he is a bogey golfer and we see a lot of them now very long of tee. Teaching today is very much distance based

A bogey golfer by definition is a 18 handicap.

Any more he’s a double bogey golfer.
Any less he’s just a golfer

 

[doublebogey7]

In your opinion, not fact


Slope can be used for course handicap... I'm not saying don't use for that..saying don't use it for score diff

You really do not understand the principles underlying the calculations do you.

 

[rulie]

Using the slope for the course/tees played in calculating the score differential "normalizes" the differential and handicap index to a course rating of 113. This means that the slope rating of the course/tees to be played must then be used to determine the course handicap for the course/tees to be played.
It's not rocket science and PJ87 does not understand it.

 

[AussieKB]

How did they come up with the rating of 113 ??????

I know it was worked out for US courses, but every other country should work out
what best suits their country IMO.

 

[wjemather]

How did they come up with the rating of 113 ??????

I know it was worked out for US courses, but every other country should work out
what best suits their country IMO.

When the system was being first developed, 113 was the average for courses in the US - based on the average stroke increase of 1.13 from one handicap to the next.

Choosing a different baseline for each country would only result in different and directly incomparable Handicap Indexes, without making any difference to Course/Playing/Daily Handicaps. There would then need to be a conversion factor when playing in. or comparing indexes from, different countries.

 

[mikejohnchapman]

When the system was being first developed, 113 was the average for courses in the US - based on the average stroke increase of 1.13 from one handicap to the next.

Choosing a different baseline for each country would only result in different and directly incomparable Handicap Indexes, without making any difference to Course/Playing/Daily Handicaps. There would then need to be a conversion factor when playing in. or comparing indexes from, different countries.

I think they called the fictitious course Perfect Valley from memory.

 

[Swango1980]

Thank you. At least somebody took the time to look at the video rather than just "manual says this"

I watched the video. He did play well that day by looks. Guess as members we remember the bad rounds more than the good ones



I understand it I don't agree with it. Two different things.

It seems clear that you don't understand Slope, which has been said many times.

However, I don't even think it is the Slope you have an issue with, albeit you think that is the problem. I suspect your main gripe would be with the Bogey Rating of your course. A higher Bogey Rating (or a lower Course Rating, which is probably not what you'd want) would lead to a higher Slope.

So, the key question is whether your Bogey Rating is accurate, as it looks like you think it should be a good bit higher. If it was, and your Slope was something like 140, I suspect you wouldn't have an issue with Slope.

I can't tell you how accurate your Bogey Rating is. But, I'm sure the guys who measured it could easily back it up.

 

[Swango1980]

I tried explaining WHS to non golfing family at Xmas........I may as well have talking Martian....

The same would probably be true if you talked about any golf related topic to non golfing people.

 

[rulefan]

A bogey golfer by definition is a 18 handicap.

Any more he’s a double bogey golfer.
Any less he’s just a golfer

Have you got the Slope formula for a double bogey golfer?

 

[wjemather]

I think they called the fictitious course Perfect Valley from memory.

And there were fictional easy and difficult courses called Cupcake Hills and Brutal Lakes.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

And there were fictional easy and difficult courses called Cupcake Hills and Brutal Lakes.

reminds me of when I was a member of Filton GC. I used to refer it 'loveingly' as Royal Filton Hills Golf and Country Club...just cause in so many ways it wasn't - though it wasn't in the country it was on higher ground with some great views (if you looked away from Southmead).

And to keep close to topic..it's CR off Whites is 0.8 over it's par 70, with a SR of 129. Both CR and slope feel right. Golf apart, I rated the club highly - and a recent visit for lunch (no golf) confirmed that that still the case.

 

[D-S]

reminds me of when I was a member of Filton GC. I used to refer it 'loveingly' as Royal Filton Hills Golf and Country Club...just cause in so many ways it wasn't - though it wasn't in the country it was on higher ground with some great views (if you looked away from Southmead).

And to keep close to topic..it's CR off Whites is 0.8 over it's par 70, with a SR of 129. Both CR and slope feel right. Golf apart, I rated the club highly - and a recent visit for lunch (no golf) confirmed that that still the case.

I’m not sure when you last played there but when we rated it a couple of years ago they have put some drainage ditches (in the middle of the back 9) which changed the rating a bit.
I played there last year in the League but can’t remember if the ditches came into play (always dispiriting when your opponents easily drive the first and third there). It’s still a decent test with a tough finish.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

I’m not sure when you last played there but when we rated it a couple of years ago they have put some drainage ditches (in the middle of the back 9) which changed the rating a bit.
I played there last year in the League but can’t remember if the ditches came into play (always dispiriting when your opponents easily drive the first and third there). It’s still a decent test with a tough finish.

Many (10+) yrs since I last played it. I can well imagine one or more ditches across the par 5 14th (Barn) and also 16th (Pond). 17th already has a ditch at driving distance - makes for a tough and quite long uphill 2nd shot...and long blind 2nd shot 18th makes last two holes a tough finish. Ands yes - I used to drive 1st fairly regularly, and could drive 3rd.

 

[KenL]

Do course raters take into account the competition scores by members?
If, for example the PCC has to be increased regularly, does that mean the rating or slope should be higher?

 

[rulefan]

Do course raters take into account the competition scores by members?
If, for example the PCC has to be increased regularly, does that mean the rating or slope should be higher?

No, unless the club requests a review.
But it might suggest the members' handicaps are too low

 

[wjemather]

Do course raters take into account the competition scores by members?
If, for example the PCC has to be increased regularly, does that mean the rating or slope should be higher?

No. However, general divergence from ratings is reported on (county level and above).
The only way PCC would regularly kick in on competition days is if the course setup significantly diverged from it's normal setup (as rated) on those days AND the players handicaps were based predominantly on counting scores submitted on other days or at other courses.

 

[D-S]

Do course raters take into account the competition scores by members?
If, for example the PCC has to be increased regularly, does that mean the rating or slope should be higher?

There is a “Course Rating Variance Report” available on the County part of the WHS Portal. This gives a couple of versions of differential of scores by handicap index point and handicap differential. This can be run for 9 and 18 hole scores, by gender and by tee set.
However I am not sure who uses it, certainly not people on the handicapping side but perhaps it is for lead raters as prep work for rating visits.
On the club side of the Portal, there is a PCC report which you can run by date and tells you the PCC each day and the number of scores submitted. So your committee should be able to tell you how often the PCC has kicked in over a given time and to what level.

 

[Deleted member 21784]

Interesting chat at the pga with one of the course raters who came back when our rating was lowered.

He said he couldn't believe he had to lower the rating as the course is a nightmare but they can only go by the criteria set out to them which was bunkers and water hazards

 

[D-S]

Interesting chat at the pga with one of the course raters who came back when our rating was lowered.

He said he couldn't believe he had to lower the rating as the course is a nightmare but they can only go by the criteria set out to them which was bunkers and water hazards

There are many other criteria taken into account, for example landing zone distances to extreme rough, dense trees, slopes, OB etc. also fairway width, length of first cut and semi.

 

[KenL]

There are many other criteria taken into account, for example landing zone distances to extreme rough, dense trees, slopes, OB etc. also fairway width, length of first cut and semi.

Define landing zone for amateurs please.