Course Management – What’s it to you?

[Lucifer MorningStar]

So you don't even try and hit greens in regulation?? I feel like you're holding yourself back. The strongest correlation with good scoring stats-wise is number of greens hit in regulation. I would never lay up for the sake of it, if I can reach a green I'm going for it. Would only lay up if there was trouble in the middle that I didn't think I can carry.

See I read his comment slightly differently. He doesn’t specifically say he doesn’t even try to hit the greens he said his approaches rarely hit the greens. I took that as either he knows he can’t reach or his dispersion means he’s not accurate enough to hit them from the distance. So his tactic could well be his best option especially if he’s forcing long irons into every green and bringing bigger trouble.

Goes to show how we interpret others posts can be different I guess.

 

[jim8flog]

When I had a far better control of direction than I do now I put a lot of effort in to it.

These days my game is so erratic that I find myself aiming for the middle of the fairway and the middle of the green a lot more than I used to.

One thing I still try to do is - when we are on buggy route (no buggies on the fairway and the route is on one side of it) I do try to find the side of the fairway where the buggy route is. us is done to avoid a lot of additional walking even though I know it will affect the score and brings certain bunkers in to play which could be avoided by being on the opposite side of the fairway or in the rough.

 

[Orikoru]

See I read his comment slightly differently. He doesn’t specifically say he doesn’t even try to hit the greens he said his approaches rarely hit the greens. I took that as either he knows he can’t reach or his dispersion means he’s not accurate enough to hit them from the distance. So his tactic could well be his best option especially if he’s forcing long irons into every green and bringing bigger trouble.

Goes to show how we interpret others posts can be different I guess.

It sounded like he was saying he usually misses greens, so he takes less club to miss it short rather than left or right. But then all he'd be doing is hitting even less greens. If he's talking about only from longer approaches, say 170+ yards, then that makes more sense as the misses will be worse and more punishing. (But he didn't say that.)

I mean all of us miss most of the greens probably - my GIR % this year is 30. But you still try and hit them, because it drastically increases your chance of making par if you do.

 

[Lucifer MorningStar]

I sometimes go the other and play too conservatively to try and protect the good score and keep the round going. This leads to lazy swings and fats and pulls. Much better when I keep doing what I was doing to get the good score. Seems to be going ok at the moment.

Your point highlights what so many of us have done and will continue to do in this infuriating game.

Sometimes there is a need for that type of play though, but I’ve found that if I need to play that way I basically talk myself into playing conservatively with positive selection. Basically I have a little internal narrative with myself during my PSR, little example played on for a good score and only few holes left to play, one hole a short par 4 easily drivable but bunkers covering front left and right. Took the 5 wood talked myself into hitting it hard so I could attack the flag with a wedge to still get the birdie, only a made Par and birdie realistically was outside chance because of that choice but that conservative 5 Wood completely took bogey out of play and I didn’t even hit it hard but it’s what I convinced myself to make it a positive thought and commit to the conservative choice.

Basically I’m a just a little weird and talk to myself a lot

 

[Lucifer MorningStar]

It sounded like he was saying he usually misses greens, so he takes less club to miss it short rather than left or right. But then all he'd be doing is hitting even less greens. If he's talking about only from longer approaches, say 170+ yards, then that makes more sense as the misses will be worse and more punishing. (But he didn't say that.)

I mean all of us miss most of the greens probably - my GIR % this year is 30. But you still try and hit them, because it drastically increases your chance of making par if you do.

But laying up may drastically reduce his chance of double bogey! Laying up short and pitch and 2 putts gives him bogey, going for it missing the green into the bunkers or worse could lead to no chance of up and down and make double. Do that every hole his score could be exponentially worse.

Sounds to me like he’s potentially making sensible decisions based upon what he deems his skill level and chances of scoring best for him are. so it’s horses for courses And proves course management is individual and not a one size fits all game despite what Stats or Strokes gained tells us.

 

[jim8flog]

To add to my earlier post what it meant when I was a much better player I was aiming tee shots to the correct side of the fairway or side with the least problems if I missed it, to give best angle of approach in to a green, trying not to leave downhill putts, knowing where to leave the ball when I knew I could not reach a green, deliberately going to in to a bunker because it is easier than a chip over the bunker (where appropriate).

 

[RichA]

It sounded like he was saying he usually misses greens, so he takes less club to miss it short rather than left or right. But then all he'd be doing is hitting even less greens. If he's talking about only from longer approaches, say 170+ yards, then that makes more sense as the misses will be worse and more punishing. (But he didn't say that.)

I mean all of us miss most of the greens probably - my GIR % this year is 30. But you still try and hit them, because it drastically increases your chance of making par if you do.

I meant the longer approach shots of 180+ yards, which would be most second shots on one of the courses I play.

 

[clubchamp98]

This is kinda what I mean in post#8
Pretty sure I was/am thinking along the same lines as you about my game. And its this kind of thing that's now making me question if I even know what course management is

But... where & what is the 'course management' in that scenario? If you/me cant get there anyway, its not and never was an option (hope you see what I'm getting at )

Is the course management aspect deciding on precisely what shot we want to have next?

The last sentence is the most important for me.

Sunday best 3 wood with a possible double if I mess it up
Or 7 iron take all the trouble out of play then GW to the green.

I practice to 80 yds a lot .
So if I need to lay up I do it to 80yds I’m comfortable from that yardage.

So course management starts on the practice ground.

 

[Lucifer MorningStar]

The last sentence is the most important for me.

Sunday best 3 wood with a possible double if I mess it up
Or 7 iron take all the trouble out of play then GW to the green.

I practice to 80 yds a lot .
So if I need to lay up I do it to 80yds I’m comfortable from that yardage.

So course management starts on the practice ground.

We have a winner absolutely nailed it!

I’ll add in to that accurately knowing your club yardages.

 

[Arthur Wedge]

We have a winner absolutely nailed it!

I’ll add in to that accurately knowing your club yardages.

I found there was no better way to improve your course management than on the course itself

 

[Orikoru]

But laying up may drastically reduce his chance of double bogey! Laying up short and pitch and 2 putts gives him bogey, going for it missing the green into the bunkers or worse could lead to no chance of up and down and make double. Do that every hole his score could be exponentially worse.

Sounds to me like he’s potentially making sensible decisions based upon what he deems his skill level and chances of scoring best for him are. so it’s horses for courses And proves course management is individual and not a one size fits all game despite what Stats or Strokes gained tells us.

Yeah - of course it depends what's around. I find that laying up doesn't guarantee me anything - a poor chip or a three-putt and there's your double bogey anyway. I hate 'using my shot' on a hole, because to me, that shot is to cover the mistake I'm likely to make, not to be used willfully unless I really have to! Of course if there's water left or right of the green that would be a good time to take less club and just aim for the front edge of the green.

I meant the longer approach shots of 180+ yards, which would be most second shots on one of the courses I play.

Yeah, fair enough mate. That makes sense. The stroke 1 hole at my place could be 180 yards in in winter, and there's a line of bushes to the right of the green, and a ditch 10 yards short of the front edge - so that is one I will occasionally have to lay up on.

 

[Lucifer MorningStar]

I found there was no better way to improve your course management than on the course itself

I think you’ve missed the point there! Practice ground is where it starts, knowing your shot type, knowing your yardages and working things that you know will be repeatable such as the type of short shots.

Then When on course you can make better decisions based on the knowledge above. Add them both together and you have course management nailed.

One doesn’t work without the other.

 

[Arthur Wedge]

I think you’ve missed the point there! Practice ground is where it starts, knowing your shot type, knowing your yardages and working things that you know will be repeatable such as the type of short shots.

Then When on course you can make better decisions based on the knowledge above. Add them both together and you have course management nailed.

One doesn’t work without the other.

And for me I learned all that on the golf course itself - not the practice ground - for me it’s the best place to learn things and the course helps visualise the shots better as opposed to just hitting into a post

 

[Lucifer MorningStar]

Yeah - of course it depends what's around. I find that laying up doesn't guarantee me anything - a poor chip or a three-putt and there's your double bogey anyway. I hate 'using my shot' on a hole, because to me, that shot is to cover the mistake I'm likely to make, not to be used willfully unless I really have to! Of course if there's water left or right of the green that would be a good time to take less club and just aim for the front edge of the green.


Yeah, fair enough mate. That makes sense. The stroke 1 hole at my place could be 180 yards in in winter, and there's a line of bushes to the right of the green, and a ditch 10 yards short of the front edge - so that is one I will occasionally have to lay up on.

@bobmac comment nails this exact thing in one of the earlier posts. People need to stop playing to the SI of a hole that’s the fastest way to lose shots in a round and a way of talking yourself into accepting negative scores.

So you’re right to hate it but I’d look at it in a different light don’t even consider it on the home or any point in the round. You can’t affect poor shots only the shot your playing in that moment.

The example I gave earlier about the Par 4, I knew I could reach the green and knew there was a great chance of putting for a 2 or making birdie. But the layout puts the negative connotation and risk around the front in the head so instead it was aggressive 5 wood for a birdie chance and worst case par. The driver if pulled off could have been 2 or guaranteed birdie, but missing could have been a 5 or 6! Card wrecker for no great gain.

Likewise same course I took on a forced carry over water off the tee at a par 5 to give me a short shot in and an eagle putt. I pulled it off walked off with an easy birdie 4. Had I not made it then it wasn’t an issue because I knew the drop zone still put me in decent place to go for the green to outside chance make a Par at worst a bogey. The risk in that case was worth the reward but at the short par 4 it wasn’t.

All about playing the percentages based on what outcome is more in your favour.

 

[Lucifer MorningStar]

And for me I learned all that on the golf course itself - not the practice ground - for me it’s the best place to learn things and the course helps visualise the shots better as opposed to just hitting into a post

So you learnt your exact yardages on the course not hitting repeated shots getting your actual averages. Also who said about just hitting to a post, every where I practice pitch shorts has greens to hit into. But like I said one still doesn’t work without the other you need those distances known to make those decisions regardless if you learn them on the practice ground or course .

Like I said it’s the best of both worlds maybe you’re different but fair play

 

[Arthur Wedge]

So you learnt your exact yardages on the course not hitting repeated shots getting your actual averages. Also who said about just hitting to a post, every where I practice pitch shorts has greens to hit into. But like I said one still doesn’t work without the other you need those distances known to make those decisions regardless if you learn them on the practice ground or course .

Like I said it’s the best of both worlds maybe you’re different but fair play

That’s exactly how I learned my distances - didn’t bother with practise ground and did it all on the golf course

 

[Voyager EMH]

And for me I learned all that on the golf course itself - not the practice ground - for me it’s the best place to learn things and the course helps visualise the shots better as opposed to just hitting into a post

I learned on an 18-hole pitch and putt course in the centre of Wakefield where the holes varied from 35 to 100 yards.

There ought to be more of these around instead of those fairly useless 9-holes of standard length par-3s.