Old Skier
Tour Winner
I would accept your argument if you had said successive governments.
It was not just the elderly who clinicians decided were suitable for discharge from hospital care.
Coronavirus - political views - supporting or otherwise...
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I would accept your argument if you had said successive governments.
It was not just the elderly who clinicians decided were suitable for discharge from hospital care.
D
Deleted member 21258
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That's isn't quite true, it went on whilst labour was in power as well btw.
Its something I looked at a while ago :- (goto figure/chart 4 on the first link for since 1987/88).
https://www.kingsfund.org.uk/publications/nhs-hospital-bed-numbers
https://www.statista.com/statistics/473264/number-of-hospital-beds-in-the-united-kingdom-uk/
Sure a fair reason is also down to key hole surgery/pregnancy stays and better surgery being done on day stays now.
I had my gall bladder out on key hole, would have been a slash you open job in the 1980s and a stay in hospital, as example.
bobmac
Major Champion
In 2000 there were 240,144 hospital beds in the UK.
10 years later in 2010 there were 183,849, a reduction of 56,295 under Labour.
10 years later in 2020 there are 170,548, a reduction of 13,301 under Conservative
10 years later in 2010 there were 183,849, a reduction of 56,295 under Labour.
10 years later in 2020 there are 170,548, a reduction of 13,301 under Conservative
D
Deleted member 21258
Guest
I wonder if Sunak has aspirations of being PM/head of the Tories. He has consistently performed well during the crisis(ie. the way you talks to people and his thoughts when he talks, and 'not the easy giving away money side').
Will be interesting to see how he performs and how he is seen as time unfolds and no doubt tax increases are implemented in the coming year or so.
Will be interesting to see how he performs and how he is seen as time unfolds and no doubt tax increases are implemented in the coming year or so.
D
Deleted member 16999
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Using DRW’s link the biggest drop was from 87/88 to 96/97 of over 80,000 under the tories! Did you purposely leave that figure off as it doesn’t suit the narrative?
There was also an increase of beds under the Labour Government according to the link!
Statistics, damn statistics.
bobmac
Major Champion
Using DRW’s link the biggest drop was from 87/88 to 96/97 of over 80,000 under the tories! Did you purposely leave that figure off as it doesn’t suit the narrative?
No.
The information I found only went back to 2000
https://www.statista.com/statistics/473264/number-of-hospital-beds-in-the-united-kingdom-uk/
D
Deleted member 16999
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Oh, you only clicked 1 of his links.
funkycoldmedina
Newbie
It's interesting how you've interpreted that data. The GE was in 2010 so half of the year the Conservative coalition were in power. There is also asterisk on the link you used which doesn't appear to be explained below the numbers but on DRW's other link it appears in 2010 there was a new way of collating the data.
Labour's last full year in government the figure was 203,000 a drop of 37,000 beds in 10 years unless you definitely know the reason for the drastic drop in 2010 was Labour, Conservative or new data definitions.
bobmac
Major Champion
Oh, you only clicked 1 of his links.
I read Ethans claim about the number of hospital beds so I decided to check myself.
It took me about half an hour to find the figures and posted my reply. I didn't see DRWs post until after I posted so no, I didn't click on either of his links
Foxholer
Blackballed
Numbers of hospital beds, on its own, is not a particularly useful stat. What are you trying to measure - if anything?
Here's an article from an independent organisation that expands the above. https://www.kingsfund.org.uk/publications/nhs-hospital-bed-numbers
I can certainly vouch for throughput for Hip Replacement Surgery - home 2nd day after op! That used to involve a much longer stay in hospital!
Edit: The limk in thisd post is the same as the one DRW posted.
Btw. If you read a little further down the link you used for the number-of-beds stats, it states that that the number of admissions has remained pretty constant - at around 1.49M/quarter since 2014. and that's why simply using number of beds is not particularly useful.
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Foxholer
Blackballed
It's the Conservatives turn to get hit by a global disaster completely outwith their control - as happened to Labour with the Lehman et al meltdown! It'll be interesting to see how each party - and that fickle bunch 'the Electorate' - reacts to the fallout/stagnation/shrinkage of the economy that will inevitably result! It won't make any difference to 'hard-liners' on either side - and there are plenty of each on here - but they are not the ones that determine election results!
SwingsitlikeHogan
Major Champion
You mean like Brown and Darling saving the UK economy and banks in 2008, but having to spend loads of dosh to do so - then getting blamed by the Conservatives for spending loads of dosh and so austerity...
Well. Sometimes you need to spend a load of money - as Sunak is demonstrating perfectly - TINA (unless it is to deliver a Labour manifesto - then it's unaffordable and not acceptable
). We will see. Remember Churchill. Sunak doing his best to sweeten a very bitter pill and Johnson is promising no further austerity to pay for it.
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SocketRocket
Ryder Cup Winner
Brown went on a borrowing frenzy in his latter period, he made huge increases in benefits and it was not as a result of the financial crisis. even the Libdems were shocked by the debt he had created.You mean like Brown and Darling saving the UK economy and banks in 2008, but having to spend loads of dosh to do so - then getting blamed by the Conservatives for spending loads of dosh and so austerity...
Well. Sometimes you need to spend a load of money - as Sunak is demonstrating perfectly - TINA (unless it is to deliver a Labour manifesto - then it's unaffordable and not acceptable
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DanFST
Head Pro
"Saviour" Brown sold half our gold reserves. Arguably the worst Investment decision of all time.......
Foxholer
Blackballed
Indeed! Politics is primarily, at least to me, a PR exercise! And that's where, imo, Conservatives have a distinct advantage - their aspirational (greed?) focus being naturally more attractive, or at least sellable, than Labour's 'social justice' approach that's so easily condemned as 'unaffordable'. Also 'interesting', and imo to the Conservatives benefit, will be the end-of-year Brexit negotiation deadline. Any negative effects are likely to be pretty trivial (save perhaps any chaos on the M20 that might occur) compared to CV19 effects!You mean like Brown and Darling saving the UK economy and banks in 2008, but having to spend loads of dosh to do so - then getting blamed by the Conservatives for spending loads of dosh and so austerity...
Well. Sometimes you need to spend a load of money - as Sunak is demonstrating perfectly - TINA (unless it is to deliver a Labour manifesto - then it's unaffordable and not acceptable
D
Deleted member 21784
Guest
The Tories PR train is amazing. Only they could convince the working class to vote for them in their droves
Problem is there more people out there who would look after number 1 and forget about others (not saying all Tory voters are that) just saying that you just need a few million who are why should I pay for this for someone Ive worked hard they should too.. not knowing what that person has been through or the opportunity they have had compared
Human nature unfortunately
Mudball
Assistant Pro
lots of posts on Brown/labour/lib dem.. havent read the last 50 posts... But just checking to see if we are still holding the party line that this is all Labours fault.
SwingsitlikeHogan
Major Champion
But it ain't necessarily so...
You just need to try and understand the difference between what you want and what is right, and that what is right may not be what you want. But that's not the tough bit...the tough bit is doing what is right.
Foxholer
Blackballed
Not necessarily the worst investment decision, but certainly the worst timing!
Over 60% of the (paper?) 'loss' has been recovered as interest from what was purchased with the proceeds!
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doublebogey7
Head Pro
Wrong, national debt in 2007 as a percentage of GDP was lower than it had been at the end of the previous Tory Government regime in 1997 at under 40% It rose through the following 2 years due to positive measures Darling took to stave off the worst of the international financial crisis. It has risen over since to over 80% of GDP, so remind me which party of Government is fiscally most responsible.
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