Coronavirus - political views - supporting or otherwise...

[spongebob59]

How many pepole can honestly say once they're in supermarkets the 2M rule is strictly followed.Seems to be the queue s outside and the checkout s are but other than that,no. I see the same problems in other strores as they open and pubs just won't work like that especially at last orders .

 

[rulefan]

Surely the 'public' may want to be careful and not add to their infection risk just because it is allowed.

More likely - some of the 'public' may ........

 

[Deleted member 16999]

There is copiuos advice on the Government website for businesses where the 2m recommendation is impossible.

For pubs and stuff it will relax when infection rate is down. Surely the 'public' may want to be careful and not add to their infection risk just because it is allowed.

As seen with all Government advice 95% will comply or at least try to comply, the whole 2m reduced to 1m has been big business led.

If the limit stays at 2m or moves to 1m and pubs get to open, the same people will still use them regardless of Government advice, it’s still not a campaign that has been led by the public.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

Government happy to watch shops and small businesses spend time and money to alter their space to accommodate 2m then before opening announce that it will shortly be 1m.
Left hand say hello to right hand..

 

[Old Skier]

Government happy to watch shops and small businesses spend time and money to alter their space to accommodate 2m then before opening announce that it will shortly be 1m.
Left hand say hello to right hand..

Isn't the same advice being given by your First Minister - don't bother answering, you never do

 

[drdel]

Government happy to watch shops and small businesses spend time and money to alter their space to accommodate 2m then before opening announce that it will shortly be 1m.
Left hand say hello to right hand..

A sensible business might look at the cost of compliance now at 2m compared to the cost of waiting until the distance /conditions relax. Bearing in mind if they open they pay 100% of wages but if they wait the delay period will cost 20%.

 

[Deleted member 21784]

How many pepole can honestly say once they're in supermarkets the 2M rule is strictly followed.Seems to be the queue s outside and the checkout s are but other than that,no. I see the same problems in other strores as they open and pubs just won't work like that especially at last orders .

Had a complete idiot in petrol garage other day

Lines on floor with one way system from till

I reach front ... Pay.. turn round this idiot walking up the exit part .. doesn't even realise

Some people just need to wake up and realise what's around them

 

[Ethan]

We'll have to disagree on this. There uys no sign of a wave of deaths across the bulk of the population in any countries afaik. Comparisons with Spanish flu are frankly ridiculous. If you're not very old or ill you are beyond unlikely to die of this.
On the other hand, a great many will die and have lives ruined by our current approach.
For me, the lockdown is going to kill more than the covid. And millions of those it doesn't kill by withdrawal of the nhs will have lives ruined by the educational and economic consequences.

Do tell the Govt that comparison with Spanish flu are ridiculous. That is what the Ferguson mathematical model is based on. You are simply wrong to say this only affects the very old or already ill.

Fears of a second wave have been focussed on September, but there are reports from China of new outbreaks.

Please explain the mechanisms of death from our current approach. Unfocussed anger is not a valid cause.

 

[Foxholer]

Government happy to watch shops and small businesses spend time and money to alter their space to accommodate 2m then before opening announce that it will shortly be 1m.
Left hand say hello to right hand..

It's generally very simple to reduce 'social distance' from 2 to 1m but not so simple (though can be) to increase it from 1 to 2m!

 

[larmen]

Judging by many people's current operation of the 2m rule I reckon that we will end up with 0.5m effective distancing with any change.

The issue with any distance is that we as human are very bad at guessing it. You can see it everywhere. Passing a cyclist in a car, asking for a gimme, ...

I think they said 2 in the hope that 1 is maintained.

 

[Foxholer]

I thought I'd been told on here by a few people that now is not the time to judge how well the government is doing and to just get behind them. The time for assessing how well they have done will come later when we are out of this in some form of inquiry. So are we saying we can't have that either? Oh well, I will just have to assume they did a fantastic job as all the evidence is pointing that way.

That might be true if we were 'back to normal' and things were going swimmingly! But we are nowhere near that stage yet!
It seems to me that folk are thinking the worst is over and we can get back to 'normal' very quickly. But that is simply not the case! Everything must be very gradually returned, with certain activities (trains and tube re-opening for example) being delayed much longer than others to avoid any possibility of a '2nd spike'! It will truly only be when an anti-virus is freely available that this sort of activity should return.

 

[Foxholer]

...If you're not very old or ill you are beyond unlikely to die of this.
...

But likely to be a carrier passing it on freely to all youcome into contact with - including the vulnerable!

...
On the other hand, a great many will die and have lives ruined by our current approach.

Howso?

 

[PNWokingham]

woth a read

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/20...city-may-prove-countrys-strategy-right-along/

 

[Ethan]

woth a read

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/20...city-may-prove-countrys-strategy-right-along/

The story is far from over in Sweden, but one city or small region does not necessarily prove one model is superior to another. There are several key components in an outbreak. One is whether or not, or how much, infection gets in in the first place. The second is whether to is prevented or allowed to propagate thereafter. Now, if you do the first one well, i.e. keep it out, then the importance of what you do next falls quite a bit. It can't spread if you managed to keep it out. Some places are lucky or unlucky in regard to the first. Liverpool, for example, had that football match. Bad luck. Some places with lots of horsey people had lots of people at Cheltenham. Others didn't.

Overall, the breezy initial confidence of Sweden's approach has faded somewhat, and their child epidemiologist has admitted they might have got it wrong. Their per capita death rates are nothing to write home about, not far behind the UK, Spain and Italy, and a lot worse than the US, Germany and others.

 

[road2ruin]

Just listening to BBC Radio 5 and aN expert gave figures about the chances of catching Covid.

Outside of the home you presently have a 0.06% chance of standing next to someone who carries the virus (some regional variation) and at 1m you have a 2.6% chance of catching it which drops to 1.3% at 2m.

On the assumption that those figures are accurate then surely a 2.6% chance of catching based on a 0.06% chance of standing next to a infected person means we have to lower the social distancing distance and allow retail/ hospitality businesses to open and survive.

 

[Foxholer]

Just listening to BBC Radio 5 and aN expert gave figures about the chances of catching Covid.

Outside of the home you presently have a 0.06% chance of standing next to someone who carries the virus (some regional variation) and at 1m you have a 2.6% chance of catching it which drops to 1.3% at 2m.

On the assumption that those figures are accurate then surely a 2.6% chance of catching based on a 0.06% chance of standing next to a infected person means we have to lower the social distancing distance and allow retail/ hospitality businesses to open and survive.

All well and good if you simply look at those numbers on their own. But factor in the number of customers a coffee shop or similar - or a crowded train (station) or tube and the exponentiation of thousands of people and those figures become 'seriously likely' that a carrier will spread the virus rapidly - and unknowingly! I'm in the fortunate situation of only encountering fewer than half a dozen folk at work, but I have no way of knowing who - and how many - they've been in contact with, so continuing 'social distancing' is very sensible to me - at least until an anti-virus is freely available!

 

[road2ruin]

All well and good if you simply look at those numbers on their own. But factor in the number of customers a coffee shop or similar - or a crowded train (station) or tube and the exponentiation of thousands of people and those figures become 'seriously likely' that a carrier will spread the virus rapidly - and unknowingly! I'm in the fortunate situation of only encountering fewer than half a dozen folk at work, but I have no way of knowing who - and how many - they've been in contact with, so continuing 'social distancing' is very sensible to me - at least until an anti-virus is freely available!

Agree, it’s not an exact science however there is still a the possibility that there will not be an anti-virus so there has to be an alternative solution as social distancing in all instances is just not feasible long term. For some industries it’s imperative that these relaxations are made imo. If you (general you rather than you specifically) feel uncomfortable with a particular solution then don’t put yourself in that position but I think we have to be given the option now.

 

[PNWokingham]

Just listening to BBC Radio 5 and aN expert gave figures about the chances of catching Covid.

Outside of the home you presently have a 0.06% chance of standing next to someone who carries the virus (some regional variation) and at 1m you have a 2.6% chance of catching it which drops to 1.3% at 2m.

On the assumption that those figures are accurate then surely a 2.6% chance of catching based on a 0.06% chance of standing next to a infected person means we have to lower the social distancing distance and allow retail/ hospitality businesses to open and survive.

that fits in with how i see it. Does moving from 2m to 1m increase the overall infections? Undoubtedly. But we are a lot more under control than we were overall, we have protected the NHS from a meltown. I think we should drop to 1m on a regional basis in areas like London etc and to keep 2m in the problem areas until they are at a similar level to London now and then change. I see huge damage to the rest of society, depressions, the diagnosis of other diseases way behind where it should be, meaning later traetment - there are clearly a lot of deaths in all other areas that have been caused by the lockdown. But now is the time to open up and learn to live with the desase and put the covid measures into better protecting the vulnerable, care homes, key workers etc. For the sake of the services we already have, we cannot cope with a 20% economic hit for too long. I just hope that the bounce back can have some decent momentum and job losses are not too catastophic

 

[Deleted member 21784]

that fits in with how i see it. Does moving from 2m to 1m increase the overall infections? Undoubtedly. But we are a lot more under control than we were overall, we have protected the NHS from a meltown. I think we should drop to 1m on a regional basis in areas like London etc and to keep 2m in the problem areas until they are at a similar level to London now and then change. I see huge damage to the rest of society, depressions, the diagnosis of other diseases way behind where it should be, meaning later traetment - there are clearly a lot of deaths in all other areas that have been caused by the lockdown. But now is the time to open up and learn to live with the desase and put the covid measures into better protecting the vulnerable, care homes, key workers etc. For the sake of the services we already have, we cannot cope with a 20% economic hit for too long. I just hope that the bounce back can have some decent momentum and job losses are not too catastophic

We can only shield the population for so long

We need to get money coming into the country again and into people's banks.

If we wear face coverings in all areas where social distancing is impossible.. for example a train or bus. ATM we have 20 max on a double decker.. how do people get to work? Not everyone can drive or cycle

Id lower vat to say 15% as a temp measure to get people spending more.. people will be scared to spend with money being limited but if tax drops it encourages spending and hopefully bring more in for a period. Plus more in for companies means more jobs saved...more jobs saved more money coming in the country in income tax

 

[Foxholer]

that fits in with how i see it. Does moving from 2m to 1m increase the overall infections? Undoubtedly. But we are a lot more under control than we were overall, we have protected the NHS from a meltown. I think we should drop to 1m on a regional basis in areas like London etc and to keep 2m in the problem areas until they are at a similar level to London now and then change. I see huge damage to the rest of society, depressions, the diagnosis of other diseases way behind where it should be, meaning later traetment - there are clearly a lot of deaths in all other areas that have been caused by the lockdown. But now is the time to open up and learn to live with the desase and put the covid measures into better protecting the vulnerable, care homes, key workers etc. For the sake of the services we already have, we cannot cope with a 20% economic hit for too long. I just hope that the bounce back can have some decent momentum and job losses are not too catastophic

While I agree with the concept, the huge danger is that we drop the safeguards too early and have to return to 'total' lockdown - either because of the 'freedoms' being introduced too early or idiots believing it's no longer a threat!
The overall economics of recovery could well be less traumatic than many folk believe, though that would require some international cooperation.