Coronavirus - political views - supporting or otherwise...

[Deleted member 15344]

We need unity within the UK to sort out this mess.

First ministers of the devolved nations, the leaders of the other political parties and even in some cases members of the UK Cabinet hearing new UK policy on Covid 19 for the first on the BBC news is NOT the way to go. It is not WW2 and we have to keep mum.

Extremely ironic coming from one of the most devisive people going when it comes to the nations of the UK - I don’t think you even understand unity and spend most of the time telling us all how great Sturgeon is doing compared to Johnson

 

[Deleted member 16999]

If you are suggesting eg that they would have got supplies of PPE in place sooner, you are wrong. The civil service's procurement processes would still have has the same issues.

Would they have introduced lockdown sooner? Only if they had been using different advisors possibly giving different advice. Certainly Corbyn et al would have been unqualified.

Was the decision to move elderly hospital patients to care homes actually a Johnson decision or was it made by the NHS hierarchy off their own bat?
With hind site it seems a bad decision but the fear was that leaving them in hospital would have overwhelmed the hospitals.

I’m suggesting nothing except you’ve missed the point!

I see absolutely nothing being gained or having a discussion about what other politicians/parties etc would or would not have done.

 

[rulefan]

The early work to preserve jobs was excellent, the PPE etc not so.

I would be interested to know how you think the PPE supplies could have reached the relevant people any sooner.
No manufacturing capacity, no supply chain contracts, no plan ....

The warning came with the 2000 sars epidemic. The then government did not heed it. 10 years later it was out of sight, out of mind.

 

[GB72]

I would be interested to know how you think the PPE supplies could have reached the relevant people any sooner.
No manufacturing capacity, no supply chain contracts, no plan ....

The warning came with the 2000 sars epidemic. The then government did not heed it. 10 years later it was out of sight, out of mind.

Will fully admit I am looking at the outcome not what could have been done as I have no knowledge of supply chains, PPE or otherwise. Only things I can think is that we did not get involved in the global scrum for PPE early enough and maybe could have appointed someone to run that operation earlier as we have now and perhaps reached out to UK companies sooner to change production to PPE as, again, we did later on

 

[rulefan]

I’m suggesting nothing except you’ve missed the point!

I see absolutely nothing being gained or having a discussion about what other politicians/parties etc would or would not have done.

Perhaps not clearly expressed. I wasn't meaning that others would necessarily have made different decisions but rather the decisions made at the time were made based on the situation at the time. They were not made with the future known.

 

[drdel]

I agree with PaulDJ42 that the government, by definition is 100% responsible for the outcomes of this virus
They are in charge, goes with the territory. And a healthy level of scrutiny is expected and hopefully welcomed.
My concern is that we reach a point of over scrutiny which has the politicians constantly looking over their shoulder, looking out for the next journo to try and trip them up or catch them out, that ultimately results in a type of paralysis, where nobody does anything for fear of being found wrong later

That is where we are currently heading I fear

So China's delay in reporting ha d no consequences.
The fact it is a new virus still means the UK Goverment is 100% to blame for the outcome. even though no vaccine or treatment has been found by any organisation in the world.
Unlike many countries the UK has tried to be transparent and given out information pretty much as it as been available; the media consequence s they have chosen to pick away at the data just to use it as a stick and sensationalise. the data on testing rates and capacity is an example of meaningless hype. Testing is not a cure and the data does not show the lag inherent in the development of the illness, infection gestation, patient presentation, death rate lag and so.

Saying the Government is 100% responsible is a poor statement when clearly many variables are beyond the scope of current knowledge, human control or political intervention.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Perhaps not clearly expressed. I wasn't meaning that others would necessarily have made different decisions but rather the decisions made at the time were made based on the situation at the time. They were not made with the future known.

That will come out at an enquiry.

 

[rulefan]

Will fully admit I am looking at the outcome not what could have been done as I have no knowledge of supply chains, PPE or otherwise. Only things I can think is that (1) we did not get involved in the global scrum for PPE early enough and (2) maybe could have appointed someone to run that operation earlier as we have now and perhaps (3) reached out to UK companies sooner to change production to PPE as, again, we did later on

(1) We did in fact but the major producer needed it for themselves
(2) The problem is that the NHS has a fragmented procurement process and each NHS authority is jealous of its rights
(3) You just can't switch machine to make something different

 

[PhilTheFragger]

So China's delay in reporting ha d no consequences.
The fact it is a new virus still means the UK Goverment is 100% to blame for the outcome. even though no vaccine or treatment has been found by any organisation in the world.
Unlike many countries the UK has tried to be transparent and given out information pretty much as it as been available; the medieqequencesa has chosen to pick away at the data just to use as a stick and sensationalise. the data on testing rates and capacity is an example of meaningless hype. Testing is not a cure and the data does not show the lag inherent in the development of the illness, infection gestation, patient presentation, death rate lag and so.

Saying the Government is 100% responsible is a poor statement when clearly many variables are beyond the scope of current knowledge, human control or political intervention.

Read my post again
100% responsible is different from 100% to blame ?

 

[Deleted member 16999]

So China's delay in reporting ha d no consequences.
The fact it is a new virus still means the UK Goverment is 100% to blame for the outcome. even though no vaccine or treatment has been found by any organisation in the world.
Unlike many countries the UK has tried to be transparent and given out information pretty much as it as been available; the medieqequencesa has chosen to pick away at the data just to use as a stick and sensationalise. the data on testing rates and capacity is an example of meaningless hype. Testing is not a cure and the data does not show the lag inherent in the development of the illness, infection gestation, patient presentation, death rate lag and so.

Saying the Government is 100% responsible is a poor statement when clearly many variables are beyond the scope of current knowledge, human control or political intervention.

Of course the current Government is 100% responsible for their actions, you can’t hold China or anyone else responsible for how this Government reacted to the information available at the time.

Whether they had the correct information or not is a seperate issue, but they still made decisions and undoubtebly they’ll take credit for the ones they got right.

 

[GB72]

(1) We did in fact but the major producer needed it for themselves
(2) The problem is that the NHS has a fragmented procurement process and each NHS authority is jealous of its rights
(3) You just can't switch machine to make something different

Ok accept all of that but tell people that in the daily briefing. Explain the problems and what is being done. I have been following this daily and left with the opinion that more could be done. Explain better and I would be more understanding

 

[drdel]

Read my post again
100% responsible is different from 100% to blame ?

Wrong, you can only be responsible for actions and outcomes over which you hold the levers of control and ability to monitor.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Wrong, you can only be responsible for actions and outcomes over which you hold the levers of control and ability to monitor.

They do for this Country.

 

[rulefan]

That will come out at an enquiry.

Indeed.
And I hope the media reports it without bias

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Indeed.
And I hope the media report it without bias

We can hope so, but I don’t think either of should hold our breath waiting.........

 

[rulefan]

I would be interested to know what those who believe the government got something in particular wrong, would have done correctly, given the information available at that time. The action suggested should preferably include that information.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

I would be interested to know what those who believe the government got something in particular wrong, would have done correctly, given the information available at that time. The action suggested should preferably include that information.

Early days we were getting stories/statements/press releases from different NHS Trusts about their stocks and supplies of PPE, accepting the Government role is/was limited on the procurement of supplies within the NHS, I believe at the time they should of stepped in, put someone in charge of oversight and got a clear picture of exactly what was going on in regards hospital/trusts stocks of PPE, then were there was a surplus or shortage it should of been moved about.

They never seemed to get a grip of the PPE problems early enough in to the crisis and it led to the fiasco like the Turkey order etc.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

Extremely ironic coming from one of the most devisive people going when it comes to the nations of the UK - I don’t think you even understand unity and spend most of the time telling us all how great Sturgeon is doing compared to Johnson

Whoosh.
Did you even read beyond the line you highlighted.
When it comes to divided I am a mere pussycat compared to the UK Prime Minister.
He managed to dived the EU, The UK, England and the divided portion of his divided Tory party.
Mind you he did manage to unite the EU and most Scots and Irish.

 

[ColchesterFC]

I would be interested to know what those who believe the government got something in particular wrong, would have done correctly, given the information available at that time. The action suggested should preferably include that information.

I believe that the lock down came about 10 days to 2 weeks too late. And I believe it should have been stricter. To me it seemed as though Boris was trying to be everybody's best friend rather than a leader. The fiasco (IMO) of advising people not to go to the pub rather than simply closing them shouldn't have happened. Also the banning of mass gatherings, such as Cheltenham and the Liverpool v Athletico match, should've happened sooner.

 

[Hacker Khan]

I believe that the lock down came about 10 days to 2 weeks too late. And I believe it should have been stricter. To me it seemed as though Boris was trying to be everybody's best friend rather than a leader. The fiasco (IMO) of advising people not to go to the pub rather than simply closing them shouldn't have happened. Also the banning of mass gatherings, such as Cheltenham and the Liverpool v Athletico match, should've happened sooner.

Spot on imho. He was being what Boris is, a populist who struggles with details, is obviously dependent on Cummings being around, goes Awol when the going gets tough to avoid questioning and increasing seems to be out of his depth and I suspect is desperate to get back to Brexit. Which is worrying if he is in charge of trying to open us up more and get us out of this.

Wouldn't be surprised if we get a second peak and most other countries don't then Rishi will be PM.