Coronavirus - political views - supporting or otherwise...

[SocketRocket]

I won't pile on. But the facts are borders have never been shut and nothing coming looks like they will be.


My girlfriends friend is staying in my London flat for a month or so as it's unused. Shes flying from Rome to Heathrow, she's got a zipcar to get there. I can almost guarantee border force won't ask her for proof of any of this, nor has she been told of any precautions she needs to take either from Alitalia or the UK gov. Nor will anyone enforce when she's there.

It's just pointless words.

I dont enforce the rules, just explained them but it will be interesting to hear what happens. After the 8th that is.

 

[rulefan]

For 10 weeks, people who are most at risk of becoming seriously ill from coronavirus have been told not to leave their homes at all. This is called social shielding.

This was advice, not an instruction - as specified in the letter addressed to relevant people

 

[Mudball]

Friends have organised camping in the backgarden for the boys and dads. If it is good enuf for DomCom, its good enough for us...

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

You are playing games with semantics and I believe you know very well what the rules are and how they operate. Its unusual in the UK to instruct the populace to restrict their basic freedoms, we rather make rules/laws and ask people not to break them, some have no penalties if broken and some do.
The rules are laid out on the .Gov site and you are free to read and digest them like anyone else but I think you have a deeper agenda.

I think Kipling put it well:
"If you can bear to hear the truth you've spoken, twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools"

I'm sorry - but I have heard many over-70s complain that they have been discriminated against as they have not been allowed out. In the rules words are very important - as we know from the interpretation that some individuals take from them. I had to explain to my M-i-L that she was not required to stay in her house - she was simply very strongly advised to do so.

And as already mentioned. I am not fully up to speed on the relaxations as we are simply sticking pretty much to what we have been doing for the last 10 weeks. We are fortunate in us having been able to live our lives pretty close to normal - and can continue to do so. If we want or need to do something different it is easy enough for me to find out what the relaxations allow. I am not sure that everyone will bother.

 

[Deleted member 18588]

I'm sorry - but I have heard many over-70s complain that they have been discriminated against as they have not been allowed out. In the rules words are very important - as we know from the interpretation that some individuals take from them. I had to explain to my M-i-L that she was not required to stay in her house - she was simply very strongly advised to do so.

Well my wife and I are both over 70 (just!) and we clearly understood the guidelines, not rules.

Are you suggesting that the authorities should contact each individual to ensure that they personally understand?

Or perhaps they were right in taking the view that the vast majority were, like us, aware of the recommendations.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

This was advice, not an instruction - as specified in the letter addressed to relevant people

...and this is a simple example of how the message the government is putting out has been, and is still in some aspects, not specific enough. We have heard some experts now tell us that some elderly and most vulnerable people have been scared witless about leaving their home - and part of that comes down to them thinking that things were so dangerous they were not allowed to leave their homes. Now of course things must be OK because they are allowed to leave our homes. And they are not OK - they are better and risk is lower - but things are not OK.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Well my wife and I are both over 70 (just!) and we clearly understood the guidelines, not rules.

Are you suggesting that the authorities should contact each individual to ensure that they personally understand?

Or perhaps they were right in taking the view that the vast majority were, like us, aware of the recommendations.

Johnson did. He sent a letter to every single one of us.

And look - if I read and hear that some people are confused by the messaging then some are confused. Don't ask me why they are confused or whether they are just saying they are confused to excuse their behaviour. If the guidance was that over 70s are advised to stay at home and be shielded then the message should not be that they must stay at home.

And now the message should not be that those same groups are now allowed to leave their homes - because they always have been. It is a misleading message. It is as easy to phrase a message accurately and unambiguously as it is to make it misleading. If we leave things down to interpretation we know where we end up. Just get the message accurate.

And similarly we find that we can start relaxation when we are in 'transition' between Level 4 and Level 3. Transition was nowhere mentioned as I recall in any of the statements made daily explaining the levels and when relaxations could be started. But they have - and we are not at Level 3.

 

[Deleted member 18588]

Johnson did. He sent a letter to every single one of us.

And look - if I read and hear that some people are confused by the messaging then some are confused. Don't ask me why they are confused or whether they are just saying they are confused to excuse their behaviour. If the guidance was that over 70s are advised to stay at home and be shielded then the message should not be that they must stay at home.

And now the message should not be that those same groups are now allowed to leave their homes - because they always have been. It is a misleading message. It is as easy to phrase a message accurately and unambiguously as it is to make it misleading. If we leave things down to interpretation we know where we end up. Just get the message accurate.

And similarly we find that we can start relaxation when we are in 'transition' between Level 4 and Level 3. Transition was nowhere mentioned as I recall in any of the statements made daily explaining the levels and when relaxations could be started. But they have - and we are not at Level 3.

Where did it say that those over 70 without health issues should stay at home and be shielded?

 

[Deleted member 16999]

This was advice, not an instruction - as specified in the letter addressed to relevant people

Suggest you quote all of my post as the selective reply leaves out the “rules” “told” “allowing” from the Government Press Release, or is this another time the Government are telling us to use initiative?

 

[SocketRocket]

I'm sorry - but I have heard many over-70s complain that they have been discriminated against as they have not been allowed out. In the rules words are very important - as we know from the interpretation that some individuals take from them. I had to explain to my M-i-L that she was not required to stay in her house - she was simply very strongly advised to do so.

And as already mentioned. I am not fully up to speed on the relaxations as we are simply sticking pretty much to what we have been doing for the last 10 weeks. We are fortunate in us having been able to live our lives pretty close to normal - and can continue to do so. If we want or need to do something different it is easy enough for me to find out what the relaxations allow. I am not sure that everyone will bother.

Over 70s have been allowed out, they have been asked to be particularly careful to keep social distancing, only people (of any age) with underlieing health issues have been asked to stay at home and shield.

 

[Swinglowandslow]

Quite honestly, I am somewhat fed up of this claim ,seen far too often , that the government message is confusing.
It isn't. People are being told it is, but it isn't. If you look at a TV and listen, then it has been clearly put , time and again. Letters have been sent.
E.g Government says "from Monday next, the restrictions of such and such are being eased to such and such."
So, the people who preempt this and do it on Sunday( because it's brilliant summer weather) have made a decision to ignore the ruling.
That's their decision.
But it is wrong to say that the government were confusing, merely because they gave a future date that something's begins.!
Nor has there been any confusion over " shielding". They have been identified , because of their medical conditions, and individually advised.
There has then been updated advice to those "shielding".
If you are not shielding, then the advice doesn't apply to you.
I am over 70, and as many on here similarly aged have said, I have been clear that the "shielding" advice has not been directed to me.

 

[Hacker Khan]

Quite honestly, I am somewhat fed up of this claim ,seen far too often , that the government message is confusing.
It isn't. People are being told it is, but it isn't. If you look at a TV and listen, then it has been clearly put , time and again. Letters have been sent.
E.g Government says "from Monday next, the restrictions of such and such are being eased to such and such."
So, the people who preempt this and do it on Sunday( because it's brilliant summer weather) have made a decision to ignore the ruling.
That's their decision.
But it is wrong to say that the government were confusing, merely because they gave a future date that something's begins.!
Nor has there been any confusion over " shielding". They have been identified , because of their medical conditions, and individually advised.
There has then been updated advice to those "shielding".
If you are not shielding, then the advice doesn't apply to you.
I am over 70, and as many on here similarly aged have said, I have been clear that the "shielding" advice has not been directed to me.

I think the real question is why an increasing number of people do not seem to trust or listen to what the government says with regards to the current crisis. You can be as clear as you want, but if you are dealing with quite nuanced situations and a lot of the nation loses faith in what you are saying for whatever reason then you still have a problem. Especially in the past if you have given the impression complex subjects can be summarised with easy slogans and answers.

 

[User20205]

^^^confused & confusing aren’t interchangeable

 

[rulefan]

^^^confused & confusing aren’t interchangeable

Add unwilling to read to that.
I can't believe so many people who have reached of my age cannot understand straightforward English.

 

[Old Skier]

Add unwilling to read to that.
I can't believe so many people who have reached of my age cannot understand straightforward English.

Your wasting your time, there seem to be a problem with instructions and the SILH family, be it info on the current crisis or getting tax returns in on time. There are those that do as asked or those who choose to ignore.

As for those who are off doing things because "Cummings " did need to take a serious look in the mirror. I presume next thing they will be doing is wearing scruffy joggers and a beanie hat when they go to work.

 

[Hacker Khan]

Your wasting your time, there seem to be a problem with instructions and the SILH family, be it info on the current crisis or getting tax returns in on time. There are those that do as asked or those who choose to ignore.

As for those who are off doing things because "Cummings " did need to take a serious look in the mirror. I presume next thing they will be doing is wearing scruffy joggers and a beanie hat when they go to work.

I'm way ahead of the curve on that one....

 

[drdel]

Add unwilling to read to that.
I can't believe so many people who have reached of my age cannot understand straightforward English.

Add that to the fact many are too arrogant or stupid to accept that someone might know more than themselves. They will blame the messenger in a look for an excuse so as to not follow guidance.

 

[Old Skier]

I'm way ahead of the curve on that one....

Your lucky, can't get my hair under a beanie anymore

 

[Hacker Khan]

Add that to the fact many are too arrogant or stupid to accept that someone might know more than themselves. They will blame the messenger in a look for an excuse so as to not follow guidance.

Good job no one expecting us to trust experts pushed the message not to trust experts or to use our instinct recently, or we would be in trouble.

 

[Mudball]

Your lucky, can't get my hair under a beanie anymore

What hair?