Coronavirus - political views - supporting or otherwise...

[Hacker Khan]

Like South Korea?
Yes, they did well initially but a few days ago there were reports that they have had to re-introduce lockdown because the easing has put up infection rate.
I'm not criticising them, just pointing out that this is unknown territory for all nations, and I think all nations are trying their best as they see it.
I am presently watching the South news about the numpties at the beaches in
Dorset. The silly BBC are still wittering on about the government message not being clear in the face if their reports showing how the people at those beaches are not giving a damn about SD , or respect for local residents, or the beach( rubbish strewn anywhere) etc.
Clearly, they know what they should or should not do, but they are doing whatever they want, and fingers up to the lockdown requirements, whatever easement stage they are at.
For so many, summer's here, and the virus isn't.

Burt surely that indicates their strategy is working? Test, trace and isolate involves being able to shot down any local outbreaks very quickly and that's going to happen in this country as well.

 

[DanFST]

Anyone that ranks countries:

What's the ideal situation for a virus that has no vaccine or cure? Until such is found, herd immunity is the only criteria for a normal life.

 

[bluewolf]

Anyone that ranks countries:

What's the ideal situation for a virus that has no vaccine or cure? Until such is found, herd immunity is the only criteria for a normal life.

Just for clarity.
Are you saying that Herd Immunity is what we should be doing, or do you think that it is what the Government are doing but not telling us?
Or have I missed your point (most likely?)?

 

[SocketRocket]

Anyone that ranks countries:

What's the ideal situation for a virus that has no vaccine or cure? Until such is found, herd immunity is the only criteria for a normal life.

How about isolating the virus so its existence becomes lower.

 

[DanFST]

Just for clarity.
Are you saying that Herd Immunity is what we should be doing, or do you think that it is what the Government are doing but not telling us?
Or have I missed your point (most likely?)?

I believe it's what our government has been doing since day 1 (along with a few others). But then It throws me off when they **** up care homes so badly, and can't even see their mistakes. My point is, apart from not overwhelming hospitals, whats the goal?

How about isolating the virus so its existence becomes lower.

Ideal situation agreed, but it had been here in 2019 most likely. Control is already lost. Do we shut borders and trade until a vaccine is here?

 

[bluewolf]

I believe it's what our government has been doing since day 1 (along with a few others). But then It throws me off when they **** up care homes so badly, and can't even see their mistakes. My point is, apart from not overwhelming hospitals, whats the goal?

Ok, I do actually agree with you, but that would mean that what several Governments (including ours) has done is to intentionally expose more people to the virus, resulting in many more short term deaths.

 

[SocketRocket]

Do we shut borders and trade until a vaccine is here?

I thought that's what we are doing now with people but not sure where trade comes into it.

 

[DanFST]

I thought that's what we are doing now with people but not sure where trade comes into it.

Borders have never been shut.

The virus travels in cargo also. (Itonically it was wither PPE or test kits that still contained infection)

 

[DanFST]

Ok, I do actually agree with you, but that would mean that what several Governments (including ours) has done is to intentionally expose more people to the virus, resulting in many more short term deaths.

I guess that's true to a sense, do short term deaths have any more weight than medium term? The strategy to give everyone a hospital bed I think was successful.

The government royally mucked up with care homes. I saw a Tory MP not admitting fault the other day, but he said we should have had more healthcare staff in the homes (a ludicrous idea. I'm no epidemiologist, but you fully isolate those at huge risk, theres no cure you can only limit transmission)

But for the greater population, I still don't understand what the ideal situation is. (I hope a vaccine comes tommorow so I look stupid)

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

The detail has been there for anyone to see and broadcast continually, I cant see why you dont understand them when you are normally so interested in the detail of such subjects.

The group that have been told to stay at home and be 'shielded' are people with certain underlying medical conditions, these people have been informed by letter. Those over 70 without serious medical conditions have not been informed by letter but have been advised they can leave home but should take particular care to avoid contact with others.

So who is it that is now allowed out who weren’t allowed out before. And you are right. If I really felt hat I needed to fully understand the detail of the rules as they are now the I know I could find that out. But I don’t need to as we are basically sticking to the lockdown rules.

However that I am not completely clear on the detail as I have picked it up, suggests that many others also might not be clear. However that i would look into it if I had the need does not mean that many others would do the same - and might just simply - say sod it all - I can’t be bothered with this...

 

[rulefan]

So who is it that is now allowed out who weren’t allowed out before. And you are right. If I really felt hat I needed to fully understand the detail of the rules as they are now the I know I could find that out. But I don’t need to as we are basically sticking to the lockdown rules.

However that I am not completely clear on the detail as I have picked it up, suggests that many others also might not be clear. However that i would look into it if I had the need does not mean that many others would do the same - and might just simply - say sod it all - I can’t be bothered with this...

Who is allowed out has not changed. What they may do and who they may meet has.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Who is allowed out has not changed. What they may do and who they may meet has.

Yes it has for those who were shielding:

“More lockdown rules are being relaxed in England, allowing the most vulnerable people to go outside again.

For 10 weeks, people who are most at risk of becoming seriously ill from coronavirus have been told not to leave their homes at all. This is called social shielding.

From Monday, the latest change will allow those who have been shielding to go outside with members of their household and meet one other person.”

 

[SocketRocket]

Borders have never been shut.

The virus travels in cargo also. (Itonically it was wither PPE or test kits that still contained infection)

People have to isolate for two weeks now when they come into the country

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Yes it has for those who were shielding:

“More lockdown rules are being relaxed in England, allowing the most vulnerable people to go outside again.

For 10 weeks, people who are most at risk of becoming seriously ill from coronavirus have been told not to leave their homes at all. This is called social shielding.

From Monday, the latest change will allow those who have been shielding to go outside with members of their household and meet one other person.”

So even on this most basic point there is inconsistent understanding, and I ask again - which groups have not been allowed out because if some are now allowed out that means that previously they were not. And I simply do not believe that it was ever the case that a group was not allowed to leave their homes yet that is the language used. Advised to not leave yes - but not actually allowed?

 

[DanFST]

People have to isolate for two weeks now when they come into the country

They don't. 8th of June.

There's no enforcement either.

 

[SocketRocket]

So even on this most basic point there is inconsistent understanding, and I ask again - which groups have not been allowed out because if some are now allowed out that means that previously they were not. And I simply do not believe that it was ever the case that a group was not allowed to leave their homes yet that is the language used. Advised to not leave yes - but not actually allowed?

You are playing games with semantics and I believe you know very well what the rules are and how they operate. Its unusual in the UK to instruct the populace to restrict their basic freedoms, we rather make rules/laws and ask people not to break them, some have no penalties if broken and some do.
The rules are laid out on the .Gov site and you are free to read and digest them like anyone else but I think you have a deeper agenda.

I think Kipling put it well:
"If you can bear to hear the truth you've spoken, twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools"

 

[SocketRocket]

They don't. 8th of June.

There's no enforcement either.

There is a fine of up to £1,000 or deportation for breaking these quaranteen rules.

 

[DanFST]

There is a fine of up to £1,000 or deportation for breaking these quaranteen rules.

A "yes I was mistaken borders have not and are not currently shut" would have sufficed.

How is that enforced?

 

[SocketRocket]

A "yes I was mistaken borders have not and are not currently shut" would have sufficed.

How is that enforced?

OK, if you want to be pedantic, the quaranteen starts next week ?

A "yes I was mistaken there are penalties relating to the new quaranteen rules" would have sufficed ?

I have no idea how the penalties will be enforced, I know that anyone coming into the country has to give a place where they will quaranteen or they will be placed in an allocated quaranteen centre.

 

[DanFST]

OK, if you want to be pedantic, the quaranteen starts next week ?

A "yes I was mistaken there are penalties relating to the new quaranteen rules" would have sufficed ?

I have no idea how the penalties will be enforced, I know that anyone coming into the country has to give a place where they will quaranteen or they will be placed in an allocated quaranteen centre.

I won't pile on. But the facts are borders have never been shut and nothing coming looks like they will be.


My girlfriends friend is staying in my London flat for a month or so as it's unused. Shes flying from Rome to Heathrow, she's got a zipcar to get there. I can almost guarantee border force won't ask her for proof of any of this, nor has she been told of any precautions she needs to take either from Alitalia or the UK gov. Nor will anyone enforce when she's there.

It's just pointless words.