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Coronavirus - how is it/has it affected you?

Billysboots said:
Phil, I find it really depressing that, rather than viewing the ongoing absence of more punishing restrictions as a positive, some here seem absolutely hell bent on believing everything is the result of an agenda.

Surely to goodness the fact that we still largely have our freedom, despite shocking numbers of new infections and continuing deaths and hospital admissions, is excellent news. None of us are party to the behind closed doors briefings, but some simply cannot accept that, just maybe, the decision makers are being told that we don’t need further restrictions at the moment. Perish the thought the science might just be guiding us down this path.

Everywhere there are conspiracy theories. It’s almost as though some would rather see us denied our liberty for ever more. Restrict us by all means if there is no alternative. I’d be fully supportive. But not simply because others elsewhere might just have acted in haste because of their own political agenda.

Maybe it’s those elsewhere who are making political decisions whilst the decision makers here in England are following the science. Wouldn’t that be a turn up for the books?

?
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Totally on side with your comments over the last day or so - we have our freedom and that is totally justified given the vaccinations, boosters and new drugs that are helping ameliorate the effects of covid. I said before that i hope we are near the point that we have anough amunition in the medical closet and heard immunity is near. The government still seem to be looking at restrictions for January, which I feel are still completely unjustified. I hope they hold their nerve and highlight the positives and urge people to live their lives and make their own choices. The economic and social impacts of restrictions need a lot more balance in the decision making process, likewise the impact on schools and exams, mental health, surging drug and alcohol deaths, the backlogs in the courts etc. It seems like the latest surge in cases has been concentrated in the younger and/or unvaccinated. That shows the medical strategy is working. The goal has always been to live with covid not eliminate it. I think we are hopefully at or near that point and that we can moe into 2022 confident that covid is moving into the endemic stage.
 
I’m sick of the word Covid as I was the word brexit.
The best thing to do imo is just get on with life,yes be careful if you want but it seems to me not everyone is on the same page.
Some wear masks some don’t ,how can that be right.
50,000 football fans in stadiums
2000 at the darts all crammed in but restrictions else where.
I went into a post office the other day with a mask on,the lady behind the screen never had one on ,so I took mine off.
She didn’t say owt but gave me a look and I thought please say something ,and I think I might of lost it if she did.
 
pokerjoke said:
I’m sick of the word Covid as I was the word brexit.
The best thing to do imo is just get on with life,yes be careful if you want but it seems to me not everyone is on the same page.
Some wear masks some don’t ,how can that be right.
50,000 football fans in stadiums
2000 at the darts all crammed in but restrictions else where.
I went into a post office the other day with a mask on,the lady behind the screen never had one on ,so I took mine off.
She didn’t say owt but gave me a look and I thought please say something ,and I think I might of lost it if she did.
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Up to a point I am totally with you. There needs to be a degree of normality but unfortunately I am not sure we are where we need to be yet for that. I personally think cases will spike further and so will hospital admissions once the festive season ends and the incubation period kicks over. What we do need though is a unified front and having four sets of rules depending on postcode seems ludicrous. You can do one thing in England and move less than a mile down the road to Scotland or Wales and its something different. How can there be any consistency
 
PNWokingham said:
Totally on side with your comments over the last day or so - we have our freedom and that is totally justified given the vaccinations, boosters and new drugs that are helping ameliorate the effects of covid. I said before that i hope we are near the point that we have anough amunition in the medical closet and heard immunity is near. The government still seem to be looking at restrictions for January, which I feel are still completely unjustified. I hope they hold their nerve and highlight the positives and urge people to live their lives and make their own choices. The economic and social impacts of restrictions need a lot more balance in the decision making process, likewise the impact on schools and exams, mental health, surging drug and alcohol deaths, the backlogs in the courts etc. It seems like the latest surge in cases has been concentrated in the younger and/or unvaccinated. That shows the medical strategy is working. The goal has always been to live with covid not eliminate it. I think we are hopefully at or near that point and that we can moe into 2022 confident that covid is moving into the endemic stage.
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But the vaccine hasn’t proven to be the be all and end all. New variants has shown that the virus, in one form or another, hasn’t gone away. Hospital admissions and deaths are rising.

Don’t get me wrong, I think we’re in a far better position than we were 12 months ago but I don’t think we’re in a position to go gaily skipping down the street just yet.

No to shutting down completely, yes to keeping measured responses in place.
 
Hobbit said:
But the vaccine hasn’t proven to be the be all and end all. New variants has shown that the virus, in one form or another, hasn’t gone away. Hospital admissions and deaths are rising.

Don’t get me wrong, I think we’re in a far better position than we were 12 months ago but I don’t think we’re in a position to go gaily skipping down the street just yet.

No to shutting down completely, yes to keeping measured responses in place.
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Brian. I think people are, at least a large proportion, making their own measure assessments of risks in different scenarios. I am not saying the virus has gone away but after 2 years, £400bn+ of extra spending in the UK alone, good and likely improving vaccinations, extensive testing and isolating, new super drugs to help with symptoms etc, we are in a place where we have to live with this as it is not going away. Deaths and hospitalizations will likely rise over the next month or so but hopefully not enough to overwhelm the health service, which is sorely tested often with seasonal flu. Phil's post above about some infected people carrying on working will no doubt be a hot topic in the months ahead.
 
PNWokingham said:
Brian. I think people are, at least a large proportion, making their own measure assessments of risks in different scenarios. I am not saying the virus has gone away but after 2 years, £400bn+ of extra spending in the UK alone, good and likely improving vaccinations, extensive testing and isolating, new super drugs to help with symptoms etc, we are in a place where we have to live with this as it is not going away. Deaths and hospitalizations will likely rise over the next month or so but hopefully not enough to overwhelm the health service, which is sorely tested often with seasonal flu. Phil's post above about some infected people carrying on working will no doubt be a hot topic in the months ahead.
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We’re splitting hairs, but to pick up on one phrase, “but hopefully.” Is that really wise, to stick your finger in the air and hope for the best?

When Spanish flu was almost done, St Louis Missouri held a ‘victory parade.’ A month later over 100,000 locally died. We learn from history, or we should. My gut feel, which counts for nowt, is close to where Billyboots is and suggests we’re so close to being there. For the sake of a few weeks why risk it?
 
Hobbit said:
But the vaccine hasn’t proven to be the be all and end all. New variants has shown that the virus, in one form or another, hasn’t gone away. Hospital admissions and deaths are rising.

Don’t get me wrong, I think we’re in a far better position than we were 12 months ago but I don’t think we’re in a position to go gaily skipping down the street just yet.

No to shutting down completely, yes to keeping measured responses in place.
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Brian, on Friday I posted some comments copied from an emergency services social media page from a lady claiming to be an ICU nurse. Whilst I can’t vouch for her authenticity, equally, the nature of the comments and where they were posted gives me no reason to doubt her. Included was the following;

“Personal observation is that the vaccinated patients on ICU with Covid are generally older (over 60) and are immunocompromised. The unvaccinated are under 50, generally either obese or pregnant although some have no obvious comorbidities.”

So, whilst I do not disagree with your comments regarding people thinking the vaccine is the be all and end all, it is clearly making a significant difference to hospitalisations or, at least, the demographic of those finding themselves in hospital, specifically ICU’s.

If, and it’s a big if, the observations are replicated elsewhere then it seems that, whilst vaccinated people are still finding themselves in ICU, in this lady’s experience that tends in the main to be if they have a weakened immune response.

This would seem to add context to the fantastic campaign to get everyone fully vaccinated. And equally, given the success of that campaign and the suggestion that hospital numbers are not at the level they were during January, it perhaps lends some credence to the current absence of further restrictions.

Your last paragraph is spot on. It may just be that we are approaching a time when common sense will take precedence over lockdown measures. Lock us down if it is necessary, by all means. But it may just be that won’t become necessary as the current vaccination program gathers pace.
 
Billysboots said:
Brian, on Friday I posted some comments copied from an emergency services social media page from a lady claiming to be an ICU nurse. Whilst I can’t vouch for her authenticity, equally, the nature of the comments and where they were posted gives me no reason to doubt her. Included was the following;

“Personal observation is that the vaccinated patients on ICU with Covid are generally older (over 60) and are immunocompromised. The unvaccinated are under 50, generally either obese or pregnant although some have no obvious comorbidities.”

So, whilst I do not disagree with your comments regarding people thinking the vaccine is the be all and end all, it is clearly making a significant difference to hospitalisations or, at least, the demographic of those finding themselves in hospital, specifically ICU’s.

If, and it’s a big if, the observations are replicated elsewhere then it seems that, whilst vaccinated people are still finding themselves in ICU, in this lady’s experience that tends in the main to be if they have a weakened immune response.

This would seem to add context to the fantastic campaign to get everyone fully vaccinated. And equally, given the success of that campaign and the suggestion that hospital numbers are not at the level they were during January, it perhaps lends some credence to the current absence of further restrictions.

Your last paragraph is spot on. It may just be that we are approaching a time when common sense will take precedence over lockdown measures. Lock us down if it is necessary, by all means. But it may just be that won’t become necessary as the current vaccination program gathers pace.
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I’ve not gone looking for the data but a question I have is what do the current infection rates and deaths look like compared to some of the worst flu years in the last 30 years? Again, that useless gut feel, suggests we’re almost at a time when it’s comparable. Anecdotal maybe’s count for nowt without real data to back them up but… are we not reaching the point of a bad seasonal flu.

The eldest daughter, a supposed intelligent woman, had 42 to a house party. 2 children contracted Covid, 1 of which almost certainly took it to the party. No one, not even immediate parents and grandparents, who were in contact post-party, caught it.

We’ve had 3 functions at the bowls club in the last fortnight. 40+ not so young people attending, no one has it. 30 odd bars in our large village/town, and although Covid is around(9 people), no sign of people dropping in the streets.

Time to get on with life.
 
Hobbit said:
I’ve not gone looking for the data but a question I have is what do the current infection rates and deaths look like compared to some of the worst flu years in the last 30 years? Again, that useless gut feel, suggests we’re almost at a time when it’s comparable. Anecdotal maybe’s count for nowt without real data to back them up but… are we not reaching the point of a bad seasonal flu.

The eldest daughter, a supposed intelligent woman, had 42 to a house party. 2 children contracted Covid, 1 of which almost certainly took it to the party. No one, not even immediate parents and grandparents, who were in contact post-party, caught it.

We’ve had 3 functions at the bowls club in the last fortnight. 40+ not so young people attending, no one has it. 30 odd bars in our large village/town, and although Covid is around(9 people), no sign of people dropping in the streets.

Time to get on with life.
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Agree….. Prof Paul Hunter, professor in medicine at the University of East Anglia, told BBC Breakfast that in time people with Covid should be allowed to "go about their normal lives" as they would with a common cold.

That suggests people could ignore test results and carry on regardless. Which is funny because why take a test (which is most unpleasant anyway) if you feel OK and are going to ignore the outcome anyway?
 
First discovery Wuhan 24 Dec 2019
Alpha Variant Kent Sept/Oct 2020
Beta Variant South Africa Dec 2020
Gamma Variant Tokyo/Amazonas Jan 2021
Delta Variant India Oct 2020
Delta Plus Variant June 2021
Omicron Variant Botswana/South Africa Nov 2021

There are a number of other variants, some of which have spread widely and are 'under investigation' (Eta, Iota, Kappa), while others have been 'outcompeted' or deemed 'no longer of interest' by WHO.

What makes anyone think this scourge isn't going to continue to mutate with 1 or more variants having the ability to disrupt almost every aspect of life for a considerable time?

It'll certainly, imo, require regular anti-Covid jabs and considerably more frequently than and to a greater proportion of the population than for Flu. Vaccine development will continue to be a 'growth industry'!
 
Hobbit said:
We’re splitting hairs, but to pick up on one phrase, “but hopefully.” Is that really wise, to stick your finger in the air and hope for the best?

When Spanish flu was almost done, St Louis Missouri held a ‘victory parade.’ A month later over 100,000 locally died. We learn from history, or we should. My gut feel, which counts for nowt, is close to where Billyboots is and suggests we’re so close to being there. For the sake of a few weeks why risk it?
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There is no certainty on anything. If it is "only a few weeks" I doubt it will make hardly any difference to the amount of covid out there as this omicron has torn through the population. And infections seem to have stabilised so I doubt any more restrictive measures will make much difference to the course of events over the next couple of months other than to be a large economic negative.
 
Fade and Die said:
“In the absence of hard data, the experts have turned to models to make their case for lockdown, It has long been clear that these models are less than worthless. No one can seriously believe SAGE’s warning from earlier this week that without new restrictions we are heading towards 6,000 Covid deaths per day.

https://www.spiked-online.com/2021/12/20/we-cannot-let-them-lock-us-down-again/
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That Spiked article was just another example of 'sensationalist journalism'!

SAGE is extremely unlikely to ever use language like that suggested. In fact the Guardian article you quote gets it right with the words 'up to' in the headline and 'could' in the body - which was what Sage apparently indicated in it's 'worst case' model. But, of course, newspapers, including the Guardian article above grabbed the headline-producing worst case model too!
 
Foxholer said:
That Spiked article was just another example of 'sensationalist journalism'!

SAGE is extremely unlikely to ever use language like that suggested. In fact the Guardian article you quote gets it right with the words 'up to' in the headline and 'could' in the body - which was what Sage apparently indicated in it's 'worst case' model. But, of course, newspapers, including the Guardian article above grabbed the headline-producing worst case model too!
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Whilst SAGE may not use the “sensational language” they certainly are not above using “sensational scenarios”

https://data.spectator.co.uk/category/sage-scenarios
 
I had the coronovirus in September.
I lay for two days with weakness, lost my sense of smell, and that was it.
After two or three months I began to notice that the taste of some foods had changed...It made me sad
My mom was living with me at the time and she didn't even get sick (weird, right?)
 
Fade and Die said:
Whilst SAGE may not use the “sensational language” they certainly are not above using “sensational scenarios”

https://data.spectator.co.uk/category/sage-scenarios
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Here's their own statement about their role.
https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/its-not-true-covid-19-modellers-look-only-at-worst-outcomes

I'd suggest it's 'news' media who select the model that fits best with the pov they are producing.

Edit: Here's a paragraph from the above article that's pretty relevant...
'Equally, those who want to engage seriously with a debate that affects us all need to consider all the data in the round, not only those parts that fit an argument while ignoring the rest. That is not science, even though it might sometimes make an entertaining read.'
 
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Foxholer said:
Here's a paragraph from the above article that's pretty relevant...

'Equally, those who want to engage seriously with a debate that affects us all need to consider all the data in the round, not only those parts that fit an argument while ignoring the rest. That is not science, even though it might sometimes make an entertaining read.'
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Indeed. Although I suspect that is perhaps aimed at those wanting to engage in professional debate, not a bunch of lay people on a golf forum.
 
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