Coronavirus - how is it/has it affected you?

[RichA]

Tell you the truth Ethan I'm not entirely sure, I'm not fully in the loop, my mother in law is having to deal with it so I get snippets from the wife but I'm working so it's very few and far between

First was suspected broken hip, turns out badly bruised (from the fall)

Then suspected bad water infection causing the memory loss

Now it's suspected brain damage from her first jab..

Tbh it's very hard for one to keep up and two hard full stop because of covid nobody can go in so the mother in law is dealing for it remotely. And because the grandmother isn't totally with it she said her next of kin was her son who does nothing for them so we had to fight to get them to talk to the mother in law as out the 4 kids she's the one that does everything

I'm just on the back bench doing whatever asked

I feel for your family. It sounds awful and familiar, from pre-covid times with my mother.
Elderly female, falls, slurred speech, confusion, uti. I'd be pushing the hospital for an MRI and a discreet dementia assessment. It's a horrible thing to have to deal with, but easier with the correct diagnosis and the support that follows - financial and medical.

 

[PJ87]

I feel for your family. It sounds awful and familiar, from pre-covid times with my mother.
Elderly female, falls, slurred speech, confusion, uti. I'd be pushing the hospital for an MRI and a discreet dementia assessment. It's a horrible thing to have to deal with, but easier with the correct diagnosis and the support that follows - financial and medical.

She went for MRI yesterday I dunno the result or such yet

It's not the best times for the wife for sure. She very close to her nan aswell

 

[Ethan]

More evidence of the effects of long Covid, increases in organ damage and post-discharge deaths among Covid survivors.

BMJ article

 

[Ethan]

Everything you need to know about the Moderna jab:

Its very much like the Pfizer one. The end.

 

[SaintHacker]

Press conference this afternoon re the AZ jab, hopefuly they're not going to stop it but nothing would surprise me

 

[RichA]

18,000,000 jabbed with AZ since January.
7 "suspected" related deaths.
By way of perspective, statistically, you would expect about 140,000 UK citizens to have died in the last 3 months anyway - 600 in road traffic collisions alone. Factor in that those of us jabbed so far are already in the "more likely to die" category and the risk seems statistically irrelevant.

 

[GB72]

18,000,000 jabbed with AZ since January.
7 "suspected" related deaths.
By way of perspective, statistically, you would expect about 140,000 UK citizens to have died in the last 3 months anyway - 600 in road traffic collisions alone. Factor in that those of us jabbed so far are already in the "more likely to die" category and the risk seems statistically irrelevant.

I guess that you look at the risk attributed to the vaccine with the risk associated with covid. If you are in the young and at low risk of serious covid, there could be a benefit of waiting for an alternative jab. If you are in the higher risk groups, the risk associated with the jab is far outweighed by the benefit of covid protection.

 

[Ethan]

18,000,000 jabbed with AZ since January.
7 "suspected" related deaths.
By way of perspective, statistically, you would expect about 140,000 UK citizens to have died in the last 3 months anyway - 600 in road traffic collisions alone. Factor in that those of us jabbed so far are already in the "more likely to die" category and the risk seems statistically irrelevant.

Not that simple. The proper assessment of risk needs to be a bit more nuanced than that. The risk window appears to be younger females, so the denominator should be the same. There were 30 cases considered related. The risk of Covid in the affected age group is a lot lower than most of the deaths which have occurred, and most of the jabs were in age groups not apparently affected, so the benefit-risk equation may be rather different. That age group has less personal benefit from vaccination.

Also, we need to understand if the CVST is the only specific risk. I think that is rather unlikely for an adverse event which causes platelet aggregation with resulting platelet depletion elsewhere in the systemic circulation.

 

[PJ87]

More evidence of the effects of long Covid, increases in organ damage and post-discharge deaths among Covid survivors.

BMJ article

Not that simple. The proper assessment of risk needs to be a bit more nuanced than that. The risk window appears to be younger females, so the denominator should be the same. There were 30 cases considered related. The risk of Covid in the affected age group is a lot lower than most of the deaths which have occurred, and most of the jabs were in age groups not apparently affected, so the benefit-risk equation may be rather different. That age group has less personal benefit from vaccination.

Also, we need to understand if the CVST is the only specific risk. I think that is rather unlikely for an adverse event which causes platelet aggregation with resulting platelet depletion elsewhere in the systemic circulation.

If they suddenly suspended it what would that mean for second doses?

 

[AmandaJR]

If they suddenly suspended it what would that mean for second doses?

Good question! I've been pro vaccine all the way but am starting to get a little nervous about having the 2nd AZ jab. I may not quite be in the young category but I am female!!

 

[RichA]

Not that simple. The proper assessment of risk needs to be a bit more nuanced than that. The risk window appears to be younger females, so the denominator should be the same. There were 30 cases considered related. The risk of Covid in the affected age group is a lot lower than most of the deaths which have occurred, and most of the jabs were in age groups not apparently affected, so the benefit-risk equation may be rather different. That age group has less personal benefit from vaccination.

Also, we need to understand if the CVST is the only specific risk. I think that is rather unlikely for an adverse event which causes platelet aggregation with resulting platelet depletion elsewhere in the systemic circulation.

I'm not suggesting it's simple. I'm simply suggesting that perspective is important and that for the general population the AZ jab seems to be safer than driving to the shops.
Suggesting that it is unsafe and scaremongering will prevent people taking up their jabs and is likely to result in more Covid deaths.
Obviously, continued research is needed and I know it lacks nuance, but the 7 deaths that may have been caused by the jab is quite a lot lower than 126,000 that have definitely been caused by Covid.

 

[SatchFan]

I'm old and male with one AZ jab inside me. A few weeks before my second but if I was offered it tomorrow I'd be there like a shot.

 

[Pathetic Shark]

18,000,000 jabbed with AZ since January.
7 "suspected" related deaths.
By way of perspective, statistically, you would expect about 140,000 UK citizens to have died in the last 3 months anyway - 600 in road traffic collisions alone. Factor in that those of us jabbed so far are already in the "more likely to die" category and the risk seems statistically irrelevant.

Coming soon to a daytime TV channel ... "did you have the AZ vaccine? Did you have side effects? You can sue for compensation. No win no fee - call us now"

 

[GB72]

I'm old and male with one AZ jab inside me. A few weeks before my second but if I was offered it tomorrow I'd be there like a shot.

Pretty much the same (not that old yet though). Really do not want to go through covid and so I will take my second shot as soon as I can (June at the moment but guess it could move up if they end up aiming the AZ vaccines towards second shots and using another one of the younger age groups)

 

[Swinglowandslow]

I'm not suggesting it's simple. I'm simply suggesting that perspective is important and that for the general population the AZ jab seems to be safer than driving to the shops.
Suggesting that it is unsafe and scaremongering will prevent people taking up their jabs and is likely to result in more Covid deaths.
Obviously, continued research is needed and I know it lacks nuance, but the 7 deaths that may have been caused by the jab is quite a lot lower than 126,000 that have definitely been caused by Covid.

Yes, but I think what Ethan is saying is that the risk calculation is not as simple as , for instance, you have portrayed in your last paragraph.
Being silly for a moment, in order to illustrate,
Supposing all 7 deaths had occurred in females aged 30 -35, all redheads, all
born in December.
Would you recommend your wife to have the jab if she was 32, and a redhead whose birthday was in December???

Edit.. Maybe yes, if the risk from covid was high (which it isn't at that age), and there was no other vaccine available.
But if there was an alternative vaccine available, you would have her take that and eliminate the risk, surely.?
That is what is being suggested as preferable thing to do.
No one is suggesting that no AZ vaccine should be taken .

 

[PJ87]

Good question! I've been pro vaccine all the way but am starting to get a little nervous about having the 2nd AZ jab. I may not quite be in the young category but I am female!!

I'm 34 . 7th may second one

I'll take the risk tho

 

[Doon frae Troon]

Good news
Livingston's Valneva vaccine shows 'strong immune response' - BBC News

 

[Ethan]

I'm not suggesting it's simple. I'm simply suggesting that perspective is important and that for the general population the AZ jab seems to be safer than driving to the shops.
Suggesting that it is unsafe and scaremongering will prevent people taking up their jabs and is likely to result in more Covid deaths.
Obviously, continued research is needed and I know it lacks nuance, but the 7 deaths that may have been caused by the jab is quite a lot lower than 126,000 that have definitely been caused by Covid.

It is not just 7 deaths (actually 19 deaths according to the MHRA CEO). There have been more deaths and a lot more non-fatal cases besides, now including also cases of splanchnic vein thrombosis (the same problem in the abdominal vasculature). Prudent pharmacovigilance is not scaremongering. It is, to use your rather misplaced analogy, checking that the car is in good enough working order to get you to the shops. Blithe false reassurance is dangerous too. You may remember that not so long ago, these events were deemed unrelated to the vax? Now they are related and there are more of them. You are braver than me to speculate on the final event rate and declare full speed ahead.

 

[RichA]

Again, this wasn't intended to be adversarial. I'm all in favour of "prudent pharmacovigilance". I'm grateful for yours and others continued research.
In the meantime, thousands probably died as a result of christmas dinner with the relatives, against scientific advice, and thousands more may die if the vaccination stalls because of fear of what appears to be a very rare reaction.
I'm just suggesting that most of us take the risk of travelling by road, even though 0.5% of us will die on one.
19 deaths out of 18,000,000 vaccines is 0.0001%.

 

[Ethan]

Again, this wasn't intended to be adversarial. I'm all in favour of "prudent pharmacovigilance". I'm grateful for yours and others continued research.
In the meantime, thousands probably died as a result of christmas dinner with the relatives, against scientific advice, and thousands more may die if the vaccination stalls because of fear of what appears to be a very rare reaction.
I'm just suggesting that most of us take the risk of travelling by road, even though 0.5% of us will die on one.
19 deaths out of 18,000,000 vaccines is 0.0001%.

Look at it this way. IF, and it is a big IF, there was an alternate vaccine available with no delay, then each and every one of the deaths associated with the AZ vaccine is unnecessary and avoidable. The choice here is not one of very small risk of death due to an adverse event versus no vaccination and the risks of Covid.

The public perception of risk is also non-linear or rational. People accept familiar risks, like car crashes much better than unfamiliar and poorly understood ones. Everyone is familiar with getting in a car and safely making it to Tesco and back intact, but may not experience the benefits of vaccination in quite the same way. And just because you drive a car or eat too many pies or whatever, doesn't mean you should or will accept another risk that you understand much less well.