Coronavirus - how is it/has it affected you?

[Italian outcast]

I found myself yesterday contemplating the argument of an anti-vacc'er - that all who wish to be vaccinated will (in time) be vaccinated and that will 'protect' them from infection from those who do not want to be vaccinated and who subsequently are infected by the virus. Yes the transition period to when all who want to be vaccinated are vaccinated will be problematic indeed - but that period is perhaps subject to different considerations to when all are vaccinated who want to be vaccinated.

But of course I can then not see past the load imposed on the NHS of all those not vaccinated and becoming ill with Covid-19. Despite what I might want I feel that we cannot simply say - 'tough' - as that way lies telling smokers, drinkers - and even then perhaps such as reckless swimmers, climbers etc - 'tough.

The aim is not to vaccinate everyone - at first the most essential staff (healthcare/carers) and the most vulnerable to effects of infection..then lets see (probably over 50s then stop at that) - personally i reckon it will be essential
Remember with a vaccine policy we do aim to generate herd immunity - through safer vaccination rather than through unrestrained and dangerous natural infection
As for anti-vaxxers - or broader vaccine hesitancy - that has to be accepted - there will be no mandate - it will be an individual choice
In general healthcare and healthcare staff never say tough - that way lies puritanical madness - nearly every disease and early death can have a 'tough' applied to it in some way - so as you say we show compassion and at our worst reserve judgement

 

[Ethan]

I found myself yesterday contemplating the argument of an anti-vacc'er - that all who wish to be vaccinated will (in time) be vaccinated and that will 'protect' them from infection from those who do not want to be vaccinated and who subsequently are infected by the virus. Yes the transition period to when all who want to be vaccinated are vaccinated will be problematic indeed - but that period is perhaps subject to different considerations to when all are vaccinated who want to be vaccinated.

But of course I can then not see past the load imposed on the NHS of all those not vaccinated and becoming ill with Covid-19. Despite what I might want I feel that we cannot simply say - 'tough' - as that way lies telling smokers, drinkers - and even then perhaps such as reckless swimmers, climbers etc - 'tough.

The selfish shy vaxxer who wants everybody else to get the vacc so that they protect him too needs to know that it will take some time and that even when the herd immunity threshold is reached, that does not prevent a non-immune person from getting Covid from someone who is carrying it. It only stops a pandemic propagating. There will be cases and deaths, albeit a declining number, for some time after we ht the 66% immunity level needed.

I think that a lot of people who currently say they won't get it will change their minds as friends and family get it with little adverse effect, and if and when Govt relax some restrictions for eligible people. International travel and a number of types of work may be a problem for non-vaxxed too.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

I think that a lot of people who currently say they won't get it will change their minds as friends and family get it with little adverse effect, and if and when Govt relax some restrictions for eligible people. International travel and a number of types of work may be a problem for non-vaxxed too.

Vaccine passports or certificates have been muttered about apparently. That may change a few minds.

 

[robinthehood]

Another vaccine announced, with as much as 95% protection

 

[robinthehood]

Hopefully it will help us see an end to the pandemic.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-54902908

 

[GB72]

Vaccine passports or certificates have been muttered about apparently. That may change a few minds.

I cannot see how you can open boarders for travel etc without something along those lines.

 

[GB72]

Where are we now with the Oxford vaccine. May be just from a UK reporting point of view but the inferences were that it was at the front of the pack but appears to have dropped back a bit now or at least gone very quiet.

 

[garyinderry]

No idea how they work out if a vaccine is effective or How do they work out if they are immune.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

I cannot see how you can open boarders for travel etc without something along those lines.

Countries we might wish to travel to may not give us the choice...

 

[Tashyboy]

Me, Ave already made the decision am having it. The vaccine that is.

However do Sub 50yr olds have a dilemma?

The general feeling Is that age wise over 50’s will be offered it but under 50’s not so. Again it has been mentioned why would you give a vaccine to a fit person. However as has been also mentioned we do not know what the long term problems are re Covid in younger people catching Covid. So would you want it or not if your under 50?

What’s the answer, me I don’t know, just glad it don’t affect me.

 

[Hobbit]

Me, Ave already made the decision am having it. The vaccine that is.

However do Sub 50yr olds have a dilemma?

The general feeling Is that age wise over 50’s will be offered it but under 50’s not so. Again it has been mentioned why would you give a vaccine to a fit person. However as has been also mentioned we do not know what the long term problems are re Covid in younger people catching Covid. So would you want it or not if your under 50?

What’s the answer, me I don’t know, just glad it don’t affect me.

Just as the regular flu vaccine is offered to the over xx years of age and the at risk groups, the Covid vaccine similarly so...

Also, there's a number of posts appearing on social media about its not had the 'usual' trial periods etc. Current flu vaccines are out within 2 years at the most.

Like you Tashy, I'm the wrong side of 25. I can spend a few years hiding away in the back of my cave or I can have the vaccine and get out there and enjoy whatever time I have left. I'll take the latter. At least I'll be filling my time with good things.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

Where are we now with the Oxford vaccine. May be just from a UK reporting point of view but the inferences were that it was at the front of the pack but appears to have dropped back a bit now or at least gone very quiet.

This morning they said they were about 2-3 weeks away from the latest results.

 

[chrisd]

Just as the regular flu vaccine is offered to the over xx years of age and the at risk groups, the Covid vaccine similarly so...

Also, there's a number of posts appearing on social media about its not had the 'usual' trial periods etc. Current flu vaccines are out within 2 years at the most.

Like you Tashy, I'm the wrong side of 25. I can spend a few years hiding away in the back of my cave or I can have the vaccine and get out there and enjoy whatever time I have left. I'll take the latter. At least I'll be filling my time with good things.

25??

Did you not mean 75??

 

[Hobbit]

25??

Did you not mean 75??

Lol, long time before 75 Chris... well, less than 15 years but more than 10.

 

[Ethan]

Hopefully it will help us see an end to the pandemic.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-54902908

After the announcement of the Pfizer results, Moderna was expected to post string numbers as they are somewhat similar in terms of mode of action. I wouldn't place too much on the 90 vs 95% difference, very few people got Covid on either vaccine so the statistical reliability of the precise number is not high. Either way, both were very effective, and interestingly, it has been reported that none of the few people who got Covid on the Moderna vaccine had a bad case. This might suggest that the severity is also reduced, which would be great news, but again, small numbers.

It will be interesting to see if the AZ vaccine reports similar numbers. There is a feeling around that it might fall a bit short, but still be pretty good.

The UK had not previously reserved any Moderna vaccine, but I expect they will be scrambling to do so now.

 

[ColchesterFC]

After the announcement of the Pfizer results, Moderna was expected to post string numbers as they are somewhat similar in terms of mode of action. I wouldn't place too much on the 90 vs 95% difference, very few people got Covid on either vaccine so the statistical reliability of the precise number is not high. Either way, both were very effective, and interestingly, it has been reported that none of the few people who got Covid on the Moderna vaccine had a bad case. This might suggest that the severity is also reduced, which would be great news, but again, small numbers.

It will be interesting to see if the AZ vaccine reports similar numbers. There is a feeling around that it might fall a bit short, but still be pretty good.

The UK had not previously reserved any Moderna vaccine, but I expect they will be scrambling to do so now.

I saw earlier that we had pre-ordered 6 different vaccines but not the Moderna one. Are the pre-orders all dependent on the vaccine getting clearance and being authorised for use or do they have to pay regardless? Did we not order the Moderna one because the Pfizer one and the Moderna one were being produced using similar methods so either both would work or both would fail so therefore we were hedging our bets? Without getting too political there seems to be quite a bit of criticism of the government for not ordering the Moderna one. No idea if it is justified criticism or not (and we probably can't discuss it without getting modded) but I imagine if they had ordered the Moderna one and it hadn't worked they would have still received criticism.

 

[Ethan]

I saw earlier that we had pre-ordered 6 different vaccines but not the Moderna one. Are the pre-orders all dependent on the vaccine getting clearance and being authorised for use or do they have to pay regardless? Did we not order the Moderna one because the Pfizer one and the Moderna one were being produced using similar methods so either both would work or both would fail so therefore we were hedging our bets? Without getting too political there seems to be quite a bit of criticism of the government for not ordering the Moderna one. No idea if it is justified criticism or not (and we probably can't discuss it without getting modded) but I imagine if they had ordered the Moderna one and it hadn't worked they would have still received criticism.

They are all normally options based on successful approval, so they tend to over-order because not all vaccines will make it through. Even though the Pfizer (really the BioNTech/Pfizer) vaccine and Moderna vaccines were using similar mechanisms, and similar efficacy is no surprise, the specific formulations are not the same, one of them could have had production problems, say a factory with audit issues or one of a raft of technical failures in the chain between factory and administration. It is an eggs in one basket scenario, really.

In my opinion, the Moderna one is the better bet, similar efficacy (90 vs 95% is the same in data sets of these sizes) but storage and therefore distribution is much easier with Moderna.

It will be interesting to see if the Oxford/AZ vaccine performs as strongly. It was previously suspected it was not quite as efficacious as the BioNTech/Pfizer vaccine but it may still be pretty good. That was based on a much more modest expectation for the BioNTech/Pfizer, so if Oxford/AZ isn't also proportionality more effective too, there could be a problem. A great deal of nationalist and reputational capital has been placed in it. If it has the same sort of numbers, that is great news and derricks the vaccination programme further.

 

[ColchesterFC]

Looks like we've ordered 5 million doses of the Moderna one. Obviously that's not a lot as everyone needs two shots but fingers crossed that with all the different orders being placed we'll have enough to cover all of the high risk groups and essential workers.

 

[Hobbit]

President of Spain has spoken about a full lockdown through to mid-Dec. Decision is based on if things continue to slide over the next week... note, continue.

The current trend isn’t good. The metric is 60% of ICU beds taken up by COVID-19 patients. That’s easily being exceeded at present, and as there is a 2 week lag it will get worse before it starts to flatten.

 

[Ethan]

The politicians in NI are beginning to talk about tightening lockdown restrictions further, after extending the planned lockdown by a week. Looks ominous. I think it will be a very courageous decision (as Sir Humphrey would have put it) to ease lockdown much in England from Dec 2nd unless they are prepared to risk things blowing up over Christmas and New Year.