Coronavirus - how is it/has it affected you?

[fundy]

^^^^^^^^^^^

Unfortunately I have an (unfair and illogical) low opinion of anyone who chooses to communicate important information via twitter. Just can’t take it seriously, might as well release a tiktok video

learn to sort the wheat from the chaff, plenty of good information on there

 

[Ethan]

Not Gupta, isn’t he Exeter? Missed the name unfortunately.

Sunetra Gupta is a female zoologist/epidemiologist at Oxford and one of the signatories of the Great Barrington Declaration. She is a prominent herd immunity proponent.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Who do you mean, not heard anyone punting for anything. Any chance on a link or do I need fact checker.

I think you can probably guess who I are talking about (but cannot and will not mention)...but in the context of coronavirus it was one who back in March was 100% against the 'herd immunity' approach now being advocated by himself and a close buddy. In any case. It'll be in the news later today and in tomorrows papers so no need for me to identify them further.

But as commented about the Oxford Uni professor - the intervention just confuses matters and quite possibly makes the wide adherence to the lockdown that is required all the harder to achieve. And that is a great pity and it disappoints me greatly.

 

[road2ruin]

But as commented about the Oxford Uni professor - the intervention just confuses matters and quite possibly makes the wide adherence to the lockdown that is required all the harder to achieve. And that is a great pity and it disappoints me greatly.

Not sure if you are talking about Chris Smith from Cambridge Uni? I don't know why it's a shock what he has said, he's been of that opinion for a lot of the last 6 months or so and has been on BBC throughout the period. I don't see why he should suddenly change his opinion because of the impending lockdown or should be only have those on TV etc who are supportive of it? He is a consultant virologist so I think a valid source of information. Obviously if you didn't mean this guy then I apologise in advance.

 

[road2ruin]

Doesn't look likely that golf courses will remain open....

13:36 Downing Street resists calls to allow golf courses and tennis courts to remain open during lockdown 2.0
The PM's official spokesman said guidance sets out that individuals can exercise in a public space with one other person or with own household.

"It's not the intention, however, for tennis courts or for golf courses to remain open," he said.

On why the government is shutting them, he said: "People are able to use public spaces or walk or run in the park.

"The purpose of the tougher regulations, which I expect are going to be difficult for very many people, are to significantly reduce social contact."

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Not sure if you are talking about Chris Smith from Cambridge Uni? I don't know why it's a shock what he has said, he's been of that opinion for a lot of the last 6 months or so and has been on BBC throughout the period. I don't see why he should suddenly change his opinion because of the impending lockdown or should be only have those on TV etc who are supportive of it? He is a consultant virologist so I think a valid source of information. Obviously if you didn't mean this guy then I apologise in advance.

No it's not...unfortunately for the government it's a potentially a more problematic intervention as it could impact wider than simply coronavirus. And it's not a shock - though indeed it could be considered FATAL (sorry - but that's as close to identifying the two as I can get )

 

[Imurg]

Well, tests and lessons suspended..
Surprised how quickly they made the decision
I needed a month off anyway...

 

[bobmac]

Doesn't look likely that golf courses will remain open....

I think back in April if all golfers were told they could play golf all summer as long as they had November off, most would have jumped at it

 

[Old Skier]

Not sure if you are talking about Chris Smith from Cambridge Uni? I don't know why it's a shock what he has said, he's been of that opinion for a lot of the last 6 months or so and has been on BBC throughout the period. I don't see why he should suddenly change his opinion because of the impending lockdown or should be only have those on TV etc who are supportive of it? He is a consultant virologist so I think a valid source of information. Obviously if you didn't mean this guy then I apologise in advance.

Wasn’t Chris it was a Professor at Oxford, he is very good and sticks to explaining current regulations and reasons for them. Never heard him talk against SAGE

 

[SocketRocket]

 

[SocketRocket]

 

[drdel]

No it's not...unfortunately for the government it's a potentially a more problematic intervention as it could impact wider than simply coronavirus. And it's not a shock - though indeed it could be considered FATAL (sorry - but that's as close to identifying the two as I can get )

Still pushing the political inferences !!!

 

[PNWokingham]

I suppose I was trying to make was that just repeating what we have already done, is destined to see more add to the same results.

So if we go lockdown and then allow people to meet up indoors again generally afterwards or for Christmas, no surprise the virus spread will pick up(this pick up, started in about June/July btw, if you look at graphs, same for most of Europe as well).

Just some of the collateral damage from the policies and peoples actions to date can be seen from my previous post, and the collateral damage is rapidly getting worse and will exceed the horrible 'let it just rip' option.

As we don't seem to have the necessary balls as a nation or individually to take proper hard action, then I just wish for an effective and safe vaccine as quick as possible. Hopefully the results will be announced in the next month and we will have some half decent answers on the vaccine situation, but even with vaccines its not likely until say 2022-2023 that things maybe returning more to the old normal.

All very sad, loads of deaths and illness tbh

well said on your two posts. I totally agree. Sweden, as we know, made mistakes as well - didn't we all! But my main point is that their policies (which are evolving) are, in my opinion, better than the rest of the countries to something without an end date. The main point from you and myself is that the anciliary affects are much worse than the increased deaths we are saving from a lockdown that will only delay another surge. We cannot support these typre of policies for another year financially and the longer they go on the worse I feel that the collateral-damage excess deaths and devestation will be - and will far exceed anything Covid throws at us.

 

[SocketRocket]

well said on your two posts. I totally agree. Sweden, as we know, made mistakes as well - didn't we all! But my main point is that their policies (which are evolving) are, in my opinion, better than the rest of the countries to something without an end date. The main point from you and myself is that the anciliary affects are much worse than the increased deaths we are saving from a lockdown that will only delay another surge. We cannot support these typre of policies for another year financially and the longer they go on the worse I feel that the collateral-damage excess deaths and devestation will be - and will far exceed anything Covid throws at us.

You are not comparing apples with apples with Sweden. It has a very small population and we know that the more people are condensed into an area the more potential for virus spread. Maybe try comparing Sweden with New Zealand who used a severe lockdown policy and you will get a more realistic comparison.

It seems to me that if we took your herd immunity policy we could be looking at the NHS being totally overwhelmed. It's not possible to completely shield the elderly and vunrable, we can see already how the infection creeps up through the age demographics, how could you stop that happening in households that have multi age occupancy, should the young people be made to live on the streets.

IMO what you suggest is unworkable and promoting a policy of neo genocide.

 

[chellie]

I think back in April if all golfers were told they could play golf all summer as long as they had November off, most would have jumped at it

Unless you work full time, can't work from home, have no flexi time.

 

[Deleted member 21258]

Hopefully people follow the government website, so its not twitter or facebook and you will be able to see that it would appear that cases on the whole maybe flatlining on the massive % increases (click on the UK button and it gives a 7 day rolling line, which shows it)

(possibly due to the local measures put in place and some were dropping already before put into higher tiers. Shame we are not going to fully find out if they were fully effective now, so haven't learnt enough for those interventions and how effective they are), :-

https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/cases

Zoe data is fairly similar, indicating dropping in hot areas etc.

Hope it continues and drops start, hopefully there isn't another uptick in cases and all the bad news that brings.

Just need my area to drop back down please!!

 

[Ethan]

well said on your two posts. I totally agree. Sweden, as we know, made mistakes as well - didn't we all! But my main point is that their policies (which are evolving) are, in my opinion, better than the rest of the countries to something without an end date. The main point from you and myself is that the anciliary affects are much worse than the increased deaths we are saving from a lockdown that will only delay another surge. We cannot support these typre of policies for another year financially and the longer they go on the worse I feel that the collateral-damage excess deaths and devestation will be - and will far exceed anything Covid throws at us.

Can you highlight tangible outcomes in Sweden in relation to deaths, cases, the economy or other health issues that worked out better in Sweden than Norway and Finland, the two adjacent countries of similar shape, population and, for Norway at least, culture?

 

[Ethan]

I suppose I was trying to make was that just repeating what we have already done, is destined to see more add to the same results.

So if we go lockdown and then allow people to meet up indoors again generally afterwards or for Christmas, no surprise the virus spread will pick up(this pick up, started in about June/July btw, if you look at graphs, same for most of Europe as well).

Just some of the collateral damage from the policies and peoples actions to date can be seen from my previous post, and the collateral damage is rapidly getting worse and will exceed the horrible 'let it just rip' option.

As we don't seem to have the necessary balls as a nation or individually to take proper hard action, then I just wish for an effective and safe vaccine as quick as possible. Hopefully the results will be announced in the next month and we will have some half decent answers on the vaccine situation, but even with vaccines its not likely until say 2022-2023 that things maybe returning more to the old normal.

All very sad, loads of deaths and illness tbh

So, if you are saying that a weak middling lockdown policy is the worst of all worlds, I can agree with that to some extent. Lockdown works if it is done pretty firmly, but a half-arsed lockdown is only going to prolong the pain. Nobody actually likes lockdown, but it might be better to rip the plaster off, as it were.

As it stands, we will need a further lockdown in January, in my opinion.

On the vaccine, I am confident that the collaborations between academia and pharma will deliver more than one vaccine, and whilst not perfect, they will change the course of this crisis. I expect administration to start to high risk groups in Q1-2/2021 but it will take some time to work through the population.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Still pushing the political inferences !!!

No different to an Oxford professor making statements that are unhelpful to the government getting us to adhere to the lockdown rules. Just another individual being similarly unhelpful. Unfortunately an element of the public will listen to, and take their lead from, some individuals more than others. I can't help it that some have put certain individuals on pedestals...and I could be talking about Dr Chris Whitty or Sir Patrick Vallance.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

You are not comparing apples with apples with Sweden. It has a very small population and we know that the more people are condensed into an area the more potential for virus spread. Maybe try comparing Sweden with New Zealand who used a severe lockdown policy and you will get a more realistic comparison.

It seems to me that if we took your herd immunity policy we could be looking at the NHS being totally overwhelmed. It's not possible to completely shield the elderly and vunrable, we can see already how the infection creeps up through the age demographics, how could you stop that happening in households that have multi age occupancy, should the young people be made to live on the streets.

IMO what you suggest is unworkable and promoting a policy of neo genocide.

Or look at Melbourne - population 5m - which has just in the last week or so come out of a total lockdown and isolation that lasted 112days. And on last looking I believe that there are now zero new cases daily.

Then add in complete closure of Australia to anyone other than Australians - and those coming in have been accommodated in hotels and very strictly monitored for a 2 week quarantine period - and ban on travelling between states.

So total lockdown can work.