Coronavirus - how is it/has it affected you?

[DanFST]

So you have interpreted that 'cannot' as 'not allowed'. Have you considered a job at the Daily Mail or Sun?
FWIW. All that's required is a voucher for MIQ. And if the returner is staying for 180 days or longer, there's no charge. So those who are genuinely returning are fine; those merely visiting are being treated as tourists. Seems perfectly fair to me! Though obviously, and sadly, could cause problems for some cases such as 'last chance to see' ones, or for funerals, such as I had - twice.

Btw. Are you or someone close to you actually an NZ citizen? Or are you simply commenting as an 'outsider'?

Maybe do your own research before comparing me to those rags.


If you are unvaccinated you cannot return to your resident country. Regardless of your opinion on the benefits of vaccination. That is not ok with me.

 

[DanFST]

The fact is that NZ acted faster and harder and it paid off big time.

We went into lockdown before they did.

 

[upsidedown]

We went into lockdown before they did.

UK went into lockdown 51 days after first confirmed case and NZ went into lockdown 25 days after first confirmed case so one could argue they went into lockdown before UK

 

[drdel]

But that is irrelevant. Transmissibility is not greater in larger populations per se. Cities in NZ have a high population density. The top half of Scotland has a low density.

The fact is that NZ acted faster and harder and it paid off big time. You can argue that this would not have been possible in the UK, but you can't really argue that it was not he cause of the vastly superior outcomes.

As I said above, there was a natural experiment in the Nordics. Norway, Sweden and Finland all have very similar populations, demographics, climate and culture, and open borders. Norway and Finland each had at least a 5 fold lower death rate than Sweden. The only real difference was the public health policy.

I realise you will not be swayed and so further granularity would be wasted.

e.g NZ has a tunnel of abouts 4km! London Underground carries a many passengers in a day as NZ trains in a year. In fact the whole public mass transit systems are widely different so millions more people in the UK travel in very close proximity. Its also well known that atmospheric pollution is higher in London impacting the level of respiratory infections.

Consequently, comparing any social and spatial variables, the UK with NZ and the resultant policy is plain silly.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

I realise you will not be swayed and so further granularity would be wasted.

e.g NZ has a tunnel of abouts 4km! London Underground carries a many passengers in a day as NZ trains in a year. In fact the whole public mass transit systems are widely different so millions more people in the UK travel in very close proximity. Its also well known that atmospheric pollution is higher in London impacting the level of respiratory infections.

Consequently, comparing any social and spatial variables, the UK with NZ and the resultant policy is plain silly.

The only people comparing NZ to the UK is those looking to find fault with the NZ way of behaving during the pandemic.

Somewhat along the lines of “well it was quite easy to do what they did and it wouldn’t of worked for the UK as we are…”

Why not just admire a.n.other Country for taking a different approach that may prove to of been sensible in dealing with the pandemic.

 

[Foxholer]

...
If you are unvaccinated you cannot return to your resident country. Regardless of your opinion on the benefits of vaccination. That is not ok with me.

Very simple and sensible fix to that then - assuming there's no underlying issues preventing it!
Btw.You don't appear to have answered my earlier question. Are you or someone dear to you an NZ citizen?

 

[Foxholer]

...
Consequently, comparing any social and spatial variables, the UK with NZ and the resultant policy is plain silly.

Totally agree! Especially if the 'comparison' is the vehement criticism of the, up until now, very successful policy! And, likewise, what NZ did was never a realistic policy to adopt here in UK, so there's no reason to 'attack NZ's approach as a defense of UK's'.
FWIW. You are wrong about the length of the longest tunnel...try nearly 9Km. But that's chickenfeed compared to The Underground.
Though there is also a 6 mile invisible piece of miraculous engineering feeding an underground power station
https://www.nzgeo.com/video/manapuri-the-toughest-tunnel/

 

[Foxholer]

UK went into lockdown 51 days after first confirmed case and NZ went into lockdown 25 days after first confirmed case so one could argue they went into lockdown before UK

Faster certainly - as Ethan posted. But UK locked down 'before' NZ - by 2 or 3 days. 23rd March cf 25/26 March

 

[drdel]

The only people comparing NZ to the UK is those looking to find fault with the NZ way of behaving during the pandemic.

Somewhat along the lines of “well it was quite easy to do what they did and it wouldn’t of worked for the UK as we are…”

Why not just admire a.n.other Country for taking a different approach that may prove to of been sensible in dealing with the pandemic.

You miss-read and you're just shooting the messenger.

Who is trying to find fault? I have not said one word of criticism of NZ. I am saying the comparison is wrong and thus the pseudo policy jibes are not founded in logic and is merely point scoring'petti-frogging' - to quote a recently resurrected term.

Such international 'league table' games are best left to the reporters as to make any robust comparison is way more complex.

I am glad I am in the UK but that does not say I'd be unhappy were I in NZ.

 

[Foxholer]

Great to see some positive action being taken by some 'traditional' influencers in the music industry.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-60177933
I'm all for folk challenging draconian government action - as those taking action as above certainly did 'in their heyday'. But there's a point where 'influencers' can have , well...too much influence, just as ancient musicians can too mind - though they have personal experience of what benefit vaccines can have.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

You miss-read and you're just shooting the messenger.

Who is trying to find fault? I have not said one word of criticism of NZ. I am saying the comparison is wrong and thus the pseudo policy jibes are not founded in logic and is merely point scoring'petti-frogging' - to quote a recently resurrected term.

Such international 'league table' games are best left to the reporters as to make any robust comparison is way more complex.

I am glad I am in the UK but that does not say I'd be unhappy were I in NZ.

And I never said you have criticised NZ, I was explaining why Ethan responded the way he did.

 

[Ethan]

I realise you will not be swayed and so further granularity would be wasted.

e.g NZ has a tunnel of abouts 4km! London Underground carries a many passengers in a day as NZ trains in a year. In fact the whole public mass transit systems are widely different so millions more people in the UK travel in very close proximity. Its also well known that atmospheric pollution is higher in London impacting the level of respiratory infections.

Consequently, comparing any social and spatial variables, the UK with NZ and the resultant policy is plain silly.

If by further granularity, you mean scientifically valid theories or facts, not wasted at all. Have at it. you seem to think I am not persuaded by science. I change my mind every day based on new stuff that I read. But it needs to be credible and relevant.

Let's agree that NZ has a smaller population than London. What I am interested in is any valid argument that makes a difference to per capita rates.

 

[DanFST]

Let's agree that NZ has a smaller population than London. What I am interested in is any valid argument that makes a difference to per capita rates.

If we assume that we had our first unrecorded case in London before they did (highly probable).

- New Zealand has the fourth-highest rate of per-capita car ownership in the world. This statistic is keenly felt in Auckland, which combines those high rates of car ownership with one of the lowest rates of patronage of public transport in the world.
- London has a car ownership rate of 50%, with one of the highest rates of patronage of public transport in the world. More people take the just the tube daily, than the NZ population.

With what we know now. This is perfect fertile ground for the spread, which will in turn increase deaths.

 

[road2ruin]

So our hopes of getting our daughter back to school have been dashed. A test this morning appears to show she’s even more infected than she was on Tuesday!!

Interestingly the tone of the class WhatsApp group has changed. A fair few of the class tested positive just before the end of term in December. All asymptomatic and all ended up having to isolate for the 10 days. Now, a month of so later they’re having to do the same even though the kids are all fine. The general consensus seems to be that they are all going to stop testing now, if the child is ill or showing symptoms then they’ll test. If they’re well then they will not.

We’ve been very lucky, this is the first time that any of us have had to isolate however I have sympathy for those who have well children at home who are facing having them indoors for 20 odd days with the space of 5 weeks.

 

[Ethan]

If we assume that we had our first unrecorded case in London before they did (highly probable).

- New Zealand has the fourth-highest rate of per-capita car ownership in the world. This statistic is keenly felt in Auckland, which combines those high rates of car ownership with one of the lowest rates of patronage of public transport in the world.
- London has a car ownership rate of 50%, with one of the highest rates of patronage of public transport in the world. More people take the just the tube daily, than the NZ population.

With what we know now. This is perfect fertile ground for the spread, which will in turn increase deaths.

Tokyo has the highest density of people in a major metropolis and very high usage of public transport. It has had a very low number of cases. The transport differences in London were rendered irrelevant by work from home and closed hospitality with London looking like a post-apocalyptic wasteland soon after the start of the pandemic.

There are clearly a number of factors at work, but it takes a lot of factors to explain such a ginormous difference in outcomes between UK and NZ and transport or pop density together don't come close.

And it doesn't matter if all the citizens of NZ could fit onto one floor of a London bus. We use per capita rates.

 

[SammmeBee]

So our hopes of getting our daughter back to school have been dashed. A test this morning appears to show she’s even more infected than she was on Tuesday!!

Interestingly the tone of the class WhatsApp group has changed. A fair few of the class tested positive just before the end of term in December. All asymptomatic and all ended up having to isolate for the 10 days. Now, a month of so later they’re having to do the same even though the kids are all fine. The general consensus seems to be that they are all going to stop testing now, if the child is ill or showing symptoms then they’ll test. If they’re well then they will not.

We’ve been very lucky, this is the first time that any of us have had to isolate however I have sympathy for those who have well children at home who are facing having them indoors for 20 odd days with the space of 5 weeks.

Don’t you get a 90 day free pass after you’ve tested +ve?

 

[road2ruin]

Don’t you get a 90 day free pass after you’ve tested +ve?

I don’t know? I’ll have a search online.

 

[road2ruin]

Don’t you get a 90 day free pass after you’ve tested +ve?

I’ve had a Google and there isn’t a clear answer that I can find. I think the issue is going to be the messaging from the school and I’m not sure whether they are following DofE guidelines or just being overly cautious.

The Government advice is:

If you have previously received a positive COVID-19 test result, you are advised not to take another PCRtest within 90 days of this result unless you develop any new main symptoms of COVID-19, or if you are required to take a PCR test upon entry into the UK.

If you have a positive PCR test result within 90 days of a previous positive test result you must stay at home, self-isolate and follow the steps in this guidance again.

The issue is the school are saying children are having to take a PCR as definitive proof before being allowed back. This means that they’re taking a PCR within 90 days of a previous infection which contradicts the advice above I think. The way I read the advice was that a PCR test should only be sought for Covid with symptoms. Anyway, with the above the PCR is coming back positive and so the self isolation has to start again.

Seems to be a catch 22 but the school are adamant on their process.

 

[williamalex1]

How has Coronavirus affected me? I've taken some time to mull this question recently as we approach 2 years of living with this.
How has it affected me...? At the first lockdown, I lost my job. Or more accurately, my contract was not renewed. I spent 2 months with no income and no support due to the nature of the job that I do. I was fortunate that I found a new contract quite quickly. The second lock down saw that contract be ended. Again I found myself if a limbo. But this time I was very fortunate that my contact network found me ok. But it's an incredibly difficult position to be in asking how will I support my family, keep a roof over our heads.

In the space of just over a year, I lost three people very close to me. Not one of them older than I am (43, 40 and 40). My best friend of 38 years died of a brain haemorrhage, sudden and unavoidable, but I couldn't get to say my final goodbyes to someone that had such an impact on my life and could only watch on a computer screen as he was laid to rest with only 8 of his large and tight knit family in attendance.
My childhood friend of 35 years succumbed to a cancer that went untreated in it's most vital stage because treatment was not available in a timely manner. I was lucky enough to be in a small group of 15 people that were allowed to attend the funeral and say goodbye.
A man that is less of a friend and more of a brother from another mother (and co-best man at my wedding) lost his wife to suicide caused by being removed from everything and everyone that she loved, as a very social person lockdown hit hard and the mental impact was too great. A brilliant, warm, funny and compassionate person lost forever. A family of 3 teenagers and a husband stripped of their mother and their wife.

What's the point of this? Well, it's primarily answering the question, how has Coronavirus affected me. Quite strongly it would seem. Financial impact, mental and emotional impact and loss of people who didn't have or die FROM covid.

There's no real point other than that, and just to get my musings of the last day or so out of the head and in to the ether.

This thread has mainly become about should we have done this or should we have done that and whether or not the lockdowns had any impact. Believe me when I say, they might not have for you, and I am genuinely happy for you if they didn't, but be assured that for others, they and the wider effects of Covid certainly did.

On the bright side Greg you're looking better in your Avatar

 

[Foxholer]

If we assume that we had our first unrecorded case in London before they did (highly probable).

- New Zealand has the fourth-highest rate of per-capita car ownership in the world. This statistic is keenly felt in Auckland, which combines those high rates of car ownership with one of the lowest rates of patronage of public transport in the world.
- London has a car ownership rate of 50%, with one of the highest rates of patronage of public transport in the world. More people take the just the tube daily, than the NZ population.

With what we know now. This is perfect fertile ground for the spread, which will in turn increase deaths.

You are making an excellent case for each country taking different approaches to handling the pandemic!